christcorp

I'm not sure if anyone has posted this before. I did do some searching through the forum first. My apologies if it's already been brought up.

We've all heard of many people speaking of the flare they get; up to 1000 rpm between 3rd and 4th gear when the car is cold. We've also heard some, including myself, who have said it's not a big deal. Within a few minutes of my car warming up, there's no longer an issue. There's TSP's about it. Those who have taken their vehicle in to have the issue addressed have had everything from computer programming to complete transmission replacements done. Speculations have been expressed of ATF fluid issues all the way to mechanical issues.

Well, even though it doesn't really bother me, and I have no intention of ever having my transmission worked on or replaced, I did decide to do some experimenting over the last couple of months. And with living in Wyoming, I never have a lack of "Cold Mornings" to test a theory. And I'm just wondering if anyone else has tested or tried what I did.

Again, I've never denied that the flare doesn't exist. It most certainly does. I simply mentioned that at least for me, it's not an issue. But as for my theory that I experimented with, I noticed that pretty much every morning; and it is cold every morning; I have no longer experienced the flare. My theory is that it's a "Computer" issue. Here's what I did.

Started the car. Cold as normal. Let it warm up "NORMAL". Meaning NOT for 5 minutes or anything. Just the normal 30-60 seconds like most people do first thing in the morning. Before pulling away and driving off, I took the transmission and ran it through the gauntlet.

Park to reverse:
Reverse to Neutral:
Neutral to Drive:
Drive to Manual: (Automatically starts in "4")
Manual tap down to 3, 2, then 1.
Manual tap up to 2, 3, 4, 5, then 6
Manual back to Drive.
Take it bake to Park:

This whole process took about 10 seconds. I then pulled away and drove off. Temperature gauge still hadn't really moved. Total time since starting the car is probably only about 1 minute or a little more. While not spinning tires, I did accelerate "Faster than normal" just to see how 3rd to 4th would go. There was no flare at all from 3rd to 4th.

Anyway, I was just wondering if anyone had tried this and if you had similar results. Again, if this theory/experiment was already mentioned in a thread, then I apologize. I didn't find it anyplace. But if someone has the "Flare" issue when the engine is cold and would like to try this experiment, I'd be interested in your finding. Later..... Mike.......

Chem1

I am curious to see where this thread goes!

igzy

Basically what you said is to go through gears and that fixes the problem. Isn't that what the transmission does when you drive off the first time, i.e. go from 1st to whatever final gear? So in theory, after you drive off and make the first stop, on the next set of upshifts one shouldn't feel the flare? I can tell you that by the time I reach my first stop after the driveway and accelerate, that the flare is far less noticeable...

Other things not considered is ambient temperature. The colder it is outside the easier it is to feel the flare up. So on any given day it may be less or more pronounced given the temperature. If one parks in a garage that will certainly make a difference too...

christcorp

Where I live, there's no real thing as ambient temperature. Not when every morning in the winter is usually in the teens or single digits.

You are correct that once you get past your first stop, after getting to 4th gear that it would be less noticeable. My experiment took much of the driving variables out of the equation . No rpm's. No clutch shifting. I manually ran through the gears one time. From park to reverse to neutral and from 1-6 and back to park. Actually its not through each physical gear but rather the programming as to which gears are to be used.

My experiment resulted in not "less noticeable" but rather no flare at all once I started driving. I did this test many times. Some days i did it some i didnt. Again, most mornings its the same cold temperature. That's why I was wondering if others who have noticeable flare when they drive off first thing in the morning have ever tried this. If others can duplicate with the SAME results, then my hypothesis and theory would be that its not a fluid issue or even mechanical in nature; but leaning more towards computer / electronics. Which would mean that the real fix should be a lot easier and cheaper (if Lexus recognized this) than a complete transmission swap. At least a viable work around.

LexBob2

This "quirk" doesn't appear to have any long term effects on reliability with the 2007 ES350's. I bought one just as this gen came out in late April - Early May 2006 and it didn't have it. The 2007 was selling in record numbers and a lot of buyers reported the flare and these reports died down as the model year went on. As mentioned, Lexus replaced some transmissions and flashed the computer on a lot more. Both approaches seemed to work to one degree or another.

I then got a 2010 and by then the flare was a distant memory.

christcorp

Agreed. I consider the slight flare on mine to be insignificant. However it does appear some here have complained of it. Was wondering if anyone had tried what I tried and if so, their results.

scfz1000

interesting will try it and let everyone know.....

scfz1000

ok only had the chance to try it three times so far so no final conclusion, but in the three times it did not flare....so you may be on to something....will continue to try...

scfz1000

continues to work...though i don't need the last step of going back to park....strange that this would work unless manual shifting actually moves you through the gears....since it only happens on the first 3rd to 4th shift for me.....this would explain it...but strange that it would actually move the car through the gears when you are just standing still...

christcorp

In an automatic, you're not actually moving through the gears when you run it from 1-6. When you put it in a gear range; e.g "4", you're telling the computer to go "As High" as that gear. You are still starting in 1st. Putting it in 6th gear doesn't mean you're in 6th gear. Actually, being in 6th is identical to being in "D". It's just in the manual side of the shifter, you don't have to punch the gas pedal to make it drop a gear. I.e. driving with it in manual 6th, it will go from 1 to 2 to 3 to 4 to 5 to 6; but you can manually down shift. Very handy in slippery snow/ice. But no, sitting there in the driveway and going from 1-6 doesn't actually run through the 6 gears.

I don't believe the affect is because of the gears. I believe it's because of the computer. Computers are great, but they have their little bugs. Running it through the gears while it's warming up for that initial 30 seconds, in my opinion, simply manually tells the computer what to use. And you're correct, you don't need to go to park. I simply did it so I could then prepare to drive. E.g. put on my seat belt, get my coffee settled, light a cigarette, etc... But no, based on my experiments, you can simply go through the 6 gears and then go straight to "D" or "R" whatever you need.

JLJ070743

I also have the problem above, but usually ignore it. It wish I had my 02 Camry back.

Lexus outsmarted themselves on our 07 es350. If you push the right remote key, the windows and sun roof automatically partially open. So I had my keys in my pocket with coins or whatever I had in my pocket pressing on the key. It opened the windows part way and sun roof unknown to me - while it was pouring down rain. Isn't that great ?? I'll never do that again - I hope Don't let that happen to you.

scfz1000

A lot of cars have this feature not ony Lexus. Chris, what is the next step here....sounds like a fix is possible but i doubt Lexus will do anything.

mlacomb

JLJ: Have your dealer disable the feature; from what I've searched and read it's an option on other models so I'm sure it's doable for the ES:

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/is-...lled-down.html

christcorp

Not sure I have a next step. As I mentioned in the beginning of the thread, and in other posts, the flare has never really been a concern of mine. I know it won't hurt anything and it never really bothered me. I now have made it a habit that just before I put it in reverse to get out of my driveway, I simply take 10 extra seconds and run it through the gears.

If Lexus wants to read this and do something about it, that's cool. I'm not looking for any accolades or copy rights. LOL I've been working on cars for more than 35 years. Mostly as a hobby. My occupation has me with degrees in electronic engineering and computer science. Great combination for a geek. Add that to a love of working on cars (With modern electronics incorporated) and a different level of thinking comes in.

My understanding is that "SOME" owners were able to get their flare fixed with reprogramming the car's computer. Some required a NEW Transmission. Not sure if the new transmission was because of ignorance at the "Local Lexus" dealer or if there's a slight difference between the two "Flare Issues". Also, other than myself, scfz1000 (on this forum), and one other person I know that this has worked for, that isn't a large enough sampling to tell if it would take care of ALL the cars with a Flare issue.

So maybe the moderator might post this as a sticky so others can find it if they have a flare issue and want to try it. I would definitely rather do this than go through having a transmission swap. That's just asking for MORE problems. That's like having a stomach ache and choosing to have your gall bladder removed. A factory transmission install is a lot more trustworthy when the car is in a certain state of completion than having a local dealer pulling half the car apart; putting in a new transmission, and hoping nothing else got messed up when doing it. And trust me, I've definitely replaced and rebuilt a few transmissions in my life. The one good thing is; the 2007 and some of the 2008 models with the issue are already 6-7 years old. As time goes on, there will be less and less mention of it. This thread was just a possible work around or fix for "some" who had concerns. later..... mike......

SteveL

I've got a 2007 ES350 that I bought used about 2 years ago with about 140K miles. I did not notice any transmission issue until about a year ago (perhaps about 155K) when i started to notice mild flare from 3rd to 4th the first time it would shift. After the first shift, the shifts were smooth without flare. After a number of months I began to think it was a 'drain back' problem with perhaps transmission fluid draining out of the solenoid and needing to have it 'reprimed' before it would shift properly. I brought it to a Toyota dealer and had a drain and fill ( just what was in the pan which I presume was about 4 quarts) thinking that perhaps the fluid was a bit low or that putting in some fresh fluid would help. Did not help- perhaps made it a bit more obvious but still only with the first shift after starting. I did play with the tiptronic a bit but did not have any consistent results. I'll try ChristCorp's method a few times and report back.
The issue with not having a dipstick and ability to do your own drain and fills is annoying. I've seen work arounds on the forum but did not want to go to the trouble. I also brought the car to a local AA_ _ _ transmission shop (after the drain and fill) thinking they might have a specialized scan tool to read codes my own scanner could not. They 'tested' the car and said I needed a rebuild on the transmission for perhaps $3000 and not to wait too long before repair or it would get worse. So as always it's difficult to get honest answers- particularly with transmissions problems.