Transmission Flare 3rd to 4th gear experiment
09-01-17, 01:40 AM
#16
They can do that but they will not fix the problem. It's a software related problem.
07-01-18, 11:05 AM
#17
Driver School Candidate
I've had a consistent flare problem- sometimes quite pronounced- from 3rd into 4th when the car is in automatic mode.
I tried ChristCorp's method but it did not work for my car. But it did get me playing with the tiptronic and this is the process that seems to stop / fix the flare for my car:
1) Start car in automatic
2) Flip lever over to tiptronic and shift down to 3rd. This can be done after you start moving.
3) Allow the car to reach about 40mph (about 3000 RPM) in 3rd and, preferably on a slight downhill, take your foot off the gas and flick the lever over into "D" automatic
4) The transmission will upshift, RPMs will drop and you can resume driving.without the flare occuring
Sometimes there is a small uptick in RPMs as the car perhaps adjusts but essentially this seems to resolve the flare in my car- at least until the next time I start. Having a warm transmission does not seem to matter.
It seems to be related to how long the car has been off- if only a short while, its fine to be in automatic and it will shift normally. If the car has been off for more than 10-15 minutes the flare can be back. This has made me wonder about a "drain-back" problem with the 3rd gear solenoid. However I do not have any codes.
LjeksesES has suggested a process of removing fuses which I presume may partly reset the ECM- that is on another forum string. I've also read about disconnecting the battery for 15-20 minutes but I doubt that would reset the ECM.
Any thoughts?
I tried ChristCorp's method but it did not work for my car. But it did get me playing with the tiptronic and this is the process that seems to stop / fix the flare for my car:
1) Start car in automatic
2) Flip lever over to tiptronic and shift down to 3rd. This can be done after you start moving.
3) Allow the car to reach about 40mph (about 3000 RPM) in 3rd and, preferably on a slight downhill, take your foot off the gas and flick the lever over into "D" automatic
4) The transmission will upshift, RPMs will drop and you can resume driving.without the flare occuring
Sometimes there is a small uptick in RPMs as the car perhaps adjusts but essentially this seems to resolve the flare in my car- at least until the next time I start. Having a warm transmission does not seem to matter.
It seems to be related to how long the car has been off- if only a short while, its fine to be in automatic and it will shift normally. If the car has been off for more than 10-15 minutes the flare can be back. This has made me wonder about a "drain-back" problem with the 3rd gear solenoid. However I do not have any codes.
LjeksesES has suggested a process of removing fuses which I presume may partly reset the ECM- that is on another forum string. I've also read about disconnecting the battery for 15-20 minutes but I doubt that would reset the ECM.
Any thoughts?
Last edited by SteveL; 07-01-18 at 11:48 AM.
04-24-19, 04:41 PM
#18
Driver School Candidate
Follow up on ES360 3rd to 4th Flare
Question on Royal Purple and transmission filter change:
I had bought my 2007 ES350 about 4 years ago with about 140K. Transmission was fine until perhaps 155K then flare appeared from 3rd to 4th - engine over-revving about 400 RPM and then settling back. I had the local Toyota dealer do a drain and fill with presumed world fluid. Problem became worse. However if I ran the car in tiptronic 3rd gear, got it up to a little over 3000RPM and popped it over into D, that would generally avoid the flare. This was particular effective if I was going uphill at the time. Flare remained the same and I attributed it to perhaps a drainback from a solenoid as it would recur if I left the car off for more than about 15 minutes. Never had the car reprogrammed. Car now has about 182K and recently I've noticed a shudder in D usually around 1200 RPM under light acceleration. Possible causes I've read about seem to be dirty transmission fluid or possibly a torque converter problem. I'm going to a local mechanic to have the pan dropped and a transmission filter change , replacing the measured transmission fluid with Royal Purple which has a positive reputation. My thinking is that perhaps the filter is somewhat clogged, reducing the fluid pressure in the tranny and contributing to the original flare problem. Any thoughts on this? Has anyone used Royal Purple tranny fluid in their ES350? Good or should I stick with world fluid?
Thanks!
I had bought my 2007 ES350 about 4 years ago with about 140K. Transmission was fine until perhaps 155K then flare appeared from 3rd to 4th - engine over-revving about 400 RPM and then settling back. I had the local Toyota dealer do a drain and fill with presumed world fluid. Problem became worse. However if I ran the car in tiptronic 3rd gear, got it up to a little over 3000RPM and popped it over into D, that would generally avoid the flare. This was particular effective if I was going uphill at the time. Flare remained the same and I attributed it to perhaps a drainback from a solenoid as it would recur if I left the car off for more than about 15 minutes. Never had the car reprogrammed. Car now has about 182K and recently I've noticed a shudder in D usually around 1200 RPM under light acceleration. Possible causes I've read about seem to be dirty transmission fluid or possibly a torque converter problem. I'm going to a local mechanic to have the pan dropped and a transmission filter change , replacing the measured transmission fluid with Royal Purple which has a positive reputation. My thinking is that perhaps the filter is somewhat clogged, reducing the fluid pressure in the tranny and contributing to the original flare problem. Any thoughts on this? Has anyone used Royal Purple tranny fluid in their ES350? Good or should I stick with world fluid?
Thanks!
Last edited by SteveL; 04-24-19 at 04:43 PM. Reason: typo
04-24-19, 07:28 PM
#19
On some of the similarly aged accords (had one), mechanics would tell you to complete 3 drain and fills to fix a tranny related shuttering problem from not changing the fluid. Worked on my 09 accord after buying it used. Because transmission problems are somewhat rare with the 5th generation, I’ve never heard of anyone doing this. I wonder if it would work?
04-25-19, 02:05 AM
#20
I recommend replacing the filter with the new updated one (OEM, made by Roki) and Valvoline Maxlife oil.
01-08-23, 05:32 AM
#21
I'm not sure if anyone has posted this before. I did do some searching through the forum first. My apologies if it's already been brought up.
We've all heard of many people speaking of the flare they get; up to 1000 rpm between 3rd and 4th gear when the car is cold. We've also heard some, including myself, who have said it's not a big deal. Within a few minutes of my car warming up, there's no longer an issue. There's TSP's about it. Those who have taken their vehicle in to have the issue addressed have had everything from computer programming to complete transmission replacements done. Speculations have been expressed of ATF fluid issues all the way to mechanical issues.
Well, even though it doesn't really bother me, and I have no intention of ever having my transmission worked on or replaced, I did decide to do some experimenting over the last couple of months. And with living in Wyoming, I never have a lack of "Cold Mornings" to test a theory. And I'm just wondering if anyone else has tested or tried what I did.
Again, I've never denied that the flare doesn't exist. It most certainly does. I simply mentioned that at least for me, it's not an issue. But as for my theory that I experimented with, I noticed that pretty much every morning; and it is cold every morning; I have no longer experienced the flare. My theory is that it's a "Computer" issue. Here's what I did.
Started the car. Cold as normal. Let it warm up "NORMAL". Meaning NOT for 5 minutes or anything. Just the normal 30-60 seconds like most people do first thing in the morning. Before pulling away and driving off, I took the transmission and ran it through the gauntlet.
Park to reverse:
Reverse to Neutral:
Neutral to Drive:
Drive to Manual: (Automatically starts in "4")
Manual tap down to 3, 2, then 1.
Manual tap up to 2, 3, 4, 5, then 6
Manual back to Drive.
Take it bake to Park:
This whole process took about 10 seconds. I then pulled away and drove off. Temperature gauge still hadn't really moved. Total time since starting the car is probably only about 1 minute or a little more. While not spinning tires, I did accelerate "Faster than normal" just to see how 3rd to 4th would go. There was no flare at all from 3rd to 4th.
Anyway, I was just wondering if anyone had tried this and if you had similar results. Again, if this theory/experiment was already mentioned in a thread, then I apologize. I didn't find it anyplace. But if someone has the "Flare" issue when the engine is cold and would like to try this experiment, I'd be interested in your finding. Later..... Mike.......
We've all heard of many people speaking of the flare they get; up to 1000 rpm between 3rd and 4th gear when the car is cold. We've also heard some, including myself, who have said it's not a big deal. Within a few minutes of my car warming up, there's no longer an issue. There's TSP's about it. Those who have taken their vehicle in to have the issue addressed have had everything from computer programming to complete transmission replacements done. Speculations have been expressed of ATF fluid issues all the way to mechanical issues.
Well, even though it doesn't really bother me, and I have no intention of ever having my transmission worked on or replaced, I did decide to do some experimenting over the last couple of months. And with living in Wyoming, I never have a lack of "Cold Mornings" to test a theory. And I'm just wondering if anyone else has tested or tried what I did.
Again, I've never denied that the flare doesn't exist. It most certainly does. I simply mentioned that at least for me, it's not an issue. But as for my theory that I experimented with, I noticed that pretty much every morning; and it is cold every morning; I have no longer experienced the flare. My theory is that it's a "Computer" issue. Here's what I did.
Started the car. Cold as normal. Let it warm up "NORMAL". Meaning NOT for 5 minutes or anything. Just the normal 30-60 seconds like most people do first thing in the morning. Before pulling away and driving off, I took the transmission and ran it through the gauntlet.
Park to reverse:
Reverse to Neutral:
Neutral to Drive:
Drive to Manual: (Automatically starts in "4")
Manual tap down to 3, 2, then 1.
Manual tap up to 2, 3, 4, 5, then 6
Manual back to Drive.
Take it bake to Park:
This whole process took about 10 seconds. I then pulled away and drove off. Temperature gauge still hadn't really moved. Total time since starting the car is probably only about 1 minute or a little more. While not spinning tires, I did accelerate "Faster than normal" just to see how 3rd to 4th would go. There was no flare at all from 3rd to 4th.
Anyway, I was just wondering if anyone had tried this and if you had similar results. Again, if this theory/experiment was already mentioned in a thread, then I apologize. I didn't find it anyplace. But if someone has the "Flare" issue when the engine is cold and would like to try this experiment, I'd be interested in your finding. Later..... Mike.......
OK I am going to try as the last time I drove it in warm weather the slipping was occurring. This only recently started to happen. You just never know until you try. I’m trying tomorrow. Will update results if worked or no worked? Hmmmmm?.
01-09-23, 05:52 AM
#22
Driver School Candidate
Does this confirm it's a programming issue?
I'm not sure if anyone has posted this before. I did do some searching through the forum first. My apologies if it's already been brought up.
We've all heard of many people speaking of the flare they get; up to 1000 rpm between 3rd and 4th gear when the car is cold. We've also heard some, including myself, who have said it's not a big deal. Within a few minutes of my car warming up, there's no longer an issue. There's TSP's about it. Those who have taken their vehicle in to have the issue addressed have had everything from computer programming to complete transmission replacements done. Speculations have been expressed of ATF fluid issues all the way to mechanical issues.
Well, even though it doesn't really bother me, and I have no intention of ever having my transmission worked on or replaced, I did decide to do some experimenting over the last couple of months. And with living in Wyoming, I never have a lack of "Cold Mornings" to test a theory. And I'm just wondering if anyone else has tested or tried what I did.
Again, I've never denied that the flare doesn't exist. It most certainly does. I simply mentioned that at least for me, it's not an issue. But as for my theory that I experimented with, I noticed that pretty much every morning; and it is cold every morning; I have no longer experienced the flare. My theory is that it's a "Computer" issue. Here's what I did.
Started the car. Cold as normal. Let it warm up "NORMAL". Meaning NOT for 5 minutes or anything. Just the normal 30-60 seconds like most people do first thing in the morning. Before pulling away and driving off, I took the transmission and ran it through the gauntlet.
Park to reverse:
Reverse to Neutral:
Neutral to Drive:
Drive to Manual: (Automatically starts in "4")
Manual tap down to 3, 2, then 1.
Manual tap up to 2, 3, 4, 5, then 6
Manual back to Drive.
Take it bake to Park:
This whole process took about 10 seconds. I then pulled away and drove off. Temperature gauge still hadn't really moved. Total time since starting the car is probably only about 1 minute or a little more. While not spinning tires, I did accelerate "Faster than normal" just to see how 3rd to 4th would go. There was no flare at all from 3rd to 4th.
Anyway, I was just wondering if anyone had tried this and if you had similar results. Again, if this theory/experiment was already mentioned in a thread, then I apologize. I didn't find it anyplace. But if someone has the "Flare" issue when the engine is cold and would like to try this experiment, I'd be interested in your finding. Later..... Mike.......
We've all heard of many people speaking of the flare they get; up to 1000 rpm between 3rd and 4th gear when the car is cold. We've also heard some, including myself, who have said it's not a big deal. Within a few minutes of my car warming up, there's no longer an issue. There's TSP's about it. Those who have taken their vehicle in to have the issue addressed have had everything from computer programming to complete transmission replacements done. Speculations have been expressed of ATF fluid issues all the way to mechanical issues.
Well, even though it doesn't really bother me, and I have no intention of ever having my transmission worked on or replaced, I did decide to do some experimenting over the last couple of months. And with living in Wyoming, I never have a lack of "Cold Mornings" to test a theory. And I'm just wondering if anyone else has tested or tried what I did.
Again, I've never denied that the flare doesn't exist. It most certainly does. I simply mentioned that at least for me, it's not an issue. But as for my theory that I experimented with, I noticed that pretty much every morning; and it is cold every morning; I have no longer experienced the flare. My theory is that it's a "Computer" issue. Here's what I did.
Started the car. Cold as normal. Let it warm up "NORMAL". Meaning NOT for 5 minutes or anything. Just the normal 30-60 seconds like most people do first thing in the morning. Before pulling away and driving off, I took the transmission and ran it through the gauntlet.
Park to reverse:
Reverse to Neutral:
Neutral to Drive:
Drive to Manual: (Automatically starts in "4")
Manual tap down to 3, 2, then 1.
Manual tap up to 2, 3, 4, 5, then 6
Manual back to Drive.
Take it bake to Park:
This whole process took about 10 seconds. I then pulled away and drove off. Temperature gauge still hadn't really moved. Total time since starting the car is probably only about 1 minute or a little more. While not spinning tires, I did accelerate "Faster than normal" just to see how 3rd to 4th would go. There was no flare at all from 3rd to 4th.
Anyway, I was just wondering if anyone had tried this and if you had similar results. Again, if this theory/experiment was already mentioned in a thread, then I apologize. I didn't find it anyplace. But if someone has the "Flare" issue when the engine is cold and would like to try this experiment, I'd be interested in your finding. Later..... Mike.......
Since I dealt with the flare issue, yrs ago, I've also changed my warm-up practice, but it's a bit simpler. I start the car and shift into drive with a foot on the brake. I let it idle a few seconds and increase the revs a very little bit for a few seconds braking all the while. Overall, no longer than a stop at a red light.
My thought is, the oil needs to be warmed to operating temp to work properly in the valves and shifting mechanisms and plates. There's no faster way to warm the oil than running it in the torque converter under brake, but I don't want to create any more stress on components than necessary, so I never rev it high with cold oil under brake. It has made the cold shift flare a very rare thing in my Pearl.
I now have an Acura with a 10 spd transmission. I can't imagine the magic inside of it, much more intricate than the engine, i guess, but I do the same transmission warmup for it. Unfortunately, it has so many choices, it seems to have trouble deciding what gear to be in, so it wants to shift more than I do. I expect it will train me over time.
My thoughts and experience FYI. Glad to read of yours.
Last edited by Nelsons; 01-09-23 at 06:01 AM.
01-28-24, 12:10 PM
#23
I've read all the comments yet no one has considered removing and replacing the 3-4 gear shift solenoids.
I think dropping the tranny pan and doing this would be the way to go.
I think dropping the tranny pan and doing this would be the way to go.
01-29-24, 04:01 AM
#24
No help since they work are designed.
01-29-24, 08:59 AM
#25
Driver School Candidate
I'm not sure if anyone has posted this before. I did do some searching through the forum first. My apologies if it's already been brought up.
We've all heard of many people speaking of the flare they get; up to 1000 rpm between 3rd and 4th gear when the car is cold. We've also heard some, including myself, who have said it's not a big deal. Within a few minutes of my car warming up, there's no longer an issue. There's TSP's about it. Those who have taken their vehicle in to have the issue addressed have had everything from computer programming to complete transmission replacements done. Speculations have been expressed of ATF fluid issues all the way to mechanical issues.
Well, even though it doesn't really bother me, and I have no intention of ever having my transmission worked on or replaced, I did decide to do some experimenting over the last couple of months. And with living in Wyoming, I never have a lack of "Cold Mornings" to test a theory. And I'm just wondering if anyone else has tested or tried what I did.
Again, I've never denied that the flare doesn't exist. It most certainly does. I simply mentioned that at least for me, it's not an issue. But as for my theory that I experimented with, I noticed that pretty much every morning; and it is cold every morning; I have no longer experienced the flare. My theory is that it's a "Computer" issue. Here's what I did.
Started the car. Cold as normal. Let it warm up "NORMAL". Meaning NOT for 5 minutes or anything. Just the normal 30-60 seconds like most people do first thing in the morning. Before pulling away and driving off, I took the transmission and ran it through the gauntlet.
Park to reverse:
Reverse to Neutral:
Neutral to Drive:
Drive to Manual: (Automatically starts in "4")
Manual tap down to 3, 2, then 1.
Manual tap up to 2, 3, 4, 5, then 6
Manual back to Drive.
Take it bake to Park:
This whole process took about 10 seconds. I then pulled away and drove off. Temperature gauge still hadn't really moved. Total time since starting the car is probably only about 1 minute or a little more. While not spinning tires, I did accelerate "Faster than normal" just to see how 3rd to 4th would go. There was no flare at all from 3rd to 4th.
Anyway, I was just wondering if anyone had tried this and if you had similar results. Again, if this theory/experiment was already mentioned in a thread, then I apologize. I didn't find it anyplace. But if someone has the "Flare" issue when the engine is cold and would like to try this experiment, I'd be interested in your finding. Later..... Mike.......
We've all heard of many people speaking of the flare they get; up to 1000 rpm between 3rd and 4th gear when the car is cold. We've also heard some, including myself, who have said it's not a big deal. Within a few minutes of my car warming up, there's no longer an issue. There's TSP's about it. Those who have taken their vehicle in to have the issue addressed have had everything from computer programming to complete transmission replacements done. Speculations have been expressed of ATF fluid issues all the way to mechanical issues.
Well, even though it doesn't really bother me, and I have no intention of ever having my transmission worked on or replaced, I did decide to do some experimenting over the last couple of months. And with living in Wyoming, I never have a lack of "Cold Mornings" to test a theory. And I'm just wondering if anyone else has tested or tried what I did.
Again, I've never denied that the flare doesn't exist. It most certainly does. I simply mentioned that at least for me, it's not an issue. But as for my theory that I experimented with, I noticed that pretty much every morning; and it is cold every morning; I have no longer experienced the flare. My theory is that it's a "Computer" issue. Here's what I did.
Started the car. Cold as normal. Let it warm up "NORMAL". Meaning NOT for 5 minutes or anything. Just the normal 30-60 seconds like most people do first thing in the morning. Before pulling away and driving off, I took the transmission and ran it through the gauntlet.
Park to reverse:
Reverse to Neutral:
Neutral to Drive:
Drive to Manual: (Automatically starts in "4")
Manual tap down to 3, 2, then 1.
Manual tap up to 2, 3, 4, 5, then 6
Manual back to Drive.
Take it bake to Park:
This whole process took about 10 seconds. I then pulled away and drove off. Temperature gauge still hadn't really moved. Total time since starting the car is probably only about 1 minute or a little more. While not spinning tires, I did accelerate "Faster than normal" just to see how 3rd to 4th would go. There was no flare at all from 3rd to 4th.
Anyway, I was just wondering if anyone had tried this and if you had similar results. Again, if this theory/experiment was already mentioned in a thread, then I apologize. I didn't find it anyplace. But if someone has the "Flare" issue when the engine is cold and would like to try this experiment, I'd be interested in your finding. Later..... Mike.......
03-04-24, 06:20 PM
#26
1st Gear
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? I have the same problem with a recently purchased 07 e350 and am Im in the middle of drain and fill. The first drain & fill helped somewhat so I will continually to drain 2-3 more times, as recommended. I’m also thinking about doing the follow:
1.dropping the pan and replacing the filter with the newer model #, as some have recommended.
2. ECM update at the dealer
3. And finally the solenoids if none of the above improves the shifting into 4th gear.
if anyone has gone through these steps and can chime In on the results it would greatly appreciated.
03-05-24, 04:28 AM
#27
Moderator
See these older threads which I found searching the term solenoids. There many transmission complaint threads.
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/es-...ion-no-go.html
and
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/es-...olenoid-a.html
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/es-...ion-no-go.html
and
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/es-...olenoid-a.html
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