carbanak

Hello everyone,

I just got an 08 ES350 with 142k miles and I've become very irritated with the diesel like sound it produces in cold temps. I live in a cold climate and have a relatively short commute. I've read through every thread on every forum about this issue and it seems no one has figured out what actually causes this. Piston slap is the most agreed upon explanation, but there is no definitive answer. Other possible answers are just lifter noise, having a timing chain or fuel injectors.

I've read that this issue was fixed on the 2010 and later model years, but not how it was actually fixed. One person on the Toyota forums said it went away on their Sienna after the VVTi TSB was performed and they had a new short block put in. I do not have the cold start rattle, just the abnormally clunky sound until the engine warms up. Does anyone know what actually causes this, is their confirmation that it is in fact piston slap? I got this car after selling my 09 Corolla which was pretty quiet, so it's disappointing to hear this. The corolla had lifter noise when cold like most cars I've driven, but it wasn't so pronounced.

I've changed the oil with PUP and added some liquimoly ceratec just to see what happens, though I doubt an additive will do anything if a mechanical revision was made to later models. Any thoughts? The sound is driving me nuts, even if I can't fix it, I'd like to know what actually is the source of this issue. The TSB for Toyota is 0094-09 and for Lexus it's 0028-09. They appear to be identical.

ESh

So called piston slap. “Normal”.

spaceballs

I agree, it seems to go away or get a lot better when the car reaches operating temperature.
Tbh, if you try to fix it you will spend a lot of money for very little gains.

tronimrich

A "normal" operating condition that you will hear in pretty much every toyota/lexus v6 2gr-fe of the period. Apparently in an effort to increase power AND gas mileage toyota took this engine up with a new piston design that expands to fit the bore as it reaches temp. My family's v6 camry makes the same noise as my Lexus.

For peace of mind I limit revs to no higher than 2,000 until thermometer is in middle.

carbanak

​​​​​​How come later model 2GR FEs don't do the same thing? Seems most prevalent in 07-08

carbanak

I saw you had posted about the same thing long ago and said using amsoil helped? Is that still the case? I know AMS has higher moly content so I may use it next time and see what happens. I added 2 bottles of ceratec last oil change with Pennzoil ultra platinum 5w30 and haven't noticed any change.

Hayk

iTrader: (1)

Do you have a recording you could share? Curious what it sounds like.

ESh

Amsoil reduced the noise but not for long.
Now I use TMGO and I don’t care about the slap anymore.

Wilson2000

Try running heavier weight oil, like 10W-30. You will get slightly worse mileage, but it won't harm the engine. If that doesn't work, you could try additives that "quiet" engines, like STP, but, they are essentially doing the same thing...raising the viscosity, which should help. If none of this helps, get a better stereo system and crank it!

carbanak

it's like this, but not nearly as bad

carbanak

I added a bottle of lubegard biotech, anecdotally it seems to be less in intensity. Biotech has the oil soluble moly and esters. I'm going to give it another 5k miles and then I'll run BG EPR engine flush and refill with Redline which has an ester base. I may re add biotech and ceratec depending on it is then. I'll send the old oil in to blackstone. How many miles do you have now?

I know you have done quite a bit on your car, did you switch to AMSoil trans fluid? Next time it needs changing I'm thinking about trying theirs.

carbanak

My understanding is that STP basically makes oil "stick" to the top end components, especially lifters so the oil doesn't drain completely when it sits. I've been thinking of trying 0w40 or 5w40 next time.

I drove a 2018 with 37k on it yesterday and there was no slap so they really must have changed something and kept quiet about it.

Wilson2000

It is more advisable to raise the lower number for noise present during start-up when the engine is cold. 10W-30 is a better choice then 5W-40.

carbanak

I See what you mean, yes I got it wrong. So worth a shot next time. Only reason I didn't think of that is it's very cold here and that could result in less lubrication on cold start

ESh

You will not improve anything with thicker oil. It doesn’t sount like that because of lack of lubrification but because of the bigger clearance between the piston and the engine block when the engine is cold.