Lexus refuses to fix my car - and lie about it.
10-25-08, 06:55 PM
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Lexus refuses to fix my car - and lie about it.
Hello All,
I am here to post my not so happy story with Lexus. I am from Illinois.
Simply put, First dealership (Arlington Lexus) failed to fix my alignment issues and messed it up further. Second dealer (Woodfield Lexus) refused to even touch my car (despite Lexus HQ asking them to give me a second opinion which they refute and HQ states they did leave a voicemail). The third dealer (Lexus of Naperville) blatantly lied about fixing it (states he drove my car on smooth road for 4 miles and found no drift. His own paperwork however states that the IN and OUT mileage are both 12530!).
The car was perfectly fine for the first 9K miles. It started pulling to the left initially. Dealer "fixed" it. 3 weeks later, it started pulling to the right. Dealer apologized profusely and "fixed" it. 3 weeks later, the alignment was off (in the second 2 scenarios it was a slow process, not one fine day). Dealer squarely blamed it on me stating I hit a pothole. I told him that I had not and was extremely careful with the car especially after the first alignment. The third alignment was done incorrectly.
We agreed to speak to a field rep. In the mean time, I took my car to the second dealership and they said that alignment was not covered under warranty initially. When I told them politely that it was, he took his book out and stated that it was covered under warranty but only ONCE. My warranty does not state that and I told him so. He then replied that their warranty ALWAYS supercedes (which is incorrect per Magnuson Moss law) and that a lot of other things had not been specified in my book! He refused to look at the car without a diagnostic fee. I had to leave because I was not prepared to pay for a problem that was under warranty.
I met with the field Rep who initially stated every possible jargon in the book until we drove a 2008 ES350 demo. The demo did not exhibit any issues and he agreed to look into my car. Later next day I got a call that my car had been fixed and they told me that the preload on the steering was adjusted. When I went to pick up my car I was in for a shock. The paperwork stated that the car experienced NO drift (which is a lie) and they had adjusted the preload based on my request (lie again!). The problem still remained.
I called Lexus HQ regarding this. Early next week someone from HQ called and initially said that the field rep had mentioned that there were no issues. I told him that I disagreed and that I had paperwork which the service manager had signed that stated that I disagreed with the problem description and the resolution. He finally relented to my request to have the car taken to another dealership and I chose to go to Woodfield Lexus. I was asked to speak to Don O' Connor and I did and left him a voicemail. His associate (Sean) called me the next day to setup the appointment. I asked him why Don had not called and he replied that Don was busy. I had also asked one of their experts take my car for a test-drive.
On the day of the appointment, I went in on time at 7AM (note that I had a newborn at this time and it was very demanding to actually get there on time). I left my car, explained all the issues alllll over again. When asked to go for a test drive, the service manager said that I had to wait for Don until 8AM. I had a meeting but called to cancel it because this was important. They called me into Don's office (I learnt he was the General Service Manager only then). He asked me why I was there and I explained. He said he knew that but said the field rep had called to tell him not to touch my car because it was "fixed". I explained to him that I was there because the HQ asked to take a second opinion and had an appointment and had left him a voicemail. Don refuted everything! He stated that I had not called not had the HQ called him regarding this. I was asked to LEAVE.
I called the HQ again and the pacifiers they are apologized profusely and told me that the note said that this guy (Aaron) had left Don a message. Aaron called me later in the day to tell me that it was best for me to go to arbitration. I asked him what had changed between the Tuesday when he initially spoke to me and now and he replied it was based on the same information. So I asked him why he had wasted my time to which he did not reply.
Sick and tired, I contacted an attorney who was willing to take my case. He sent a letter to Lexus and they denied the claim. He then advised me to take the car to a third dealer.
I did and took the car to Lexus of Naperville. I told them about the car and its state and they agreed to look at it. The service manager there stated that alignment/wheel balancing was only covered ONCE (same story). I asked her to give me a copy of the same for my reference which she did. Their General Service Manager (dont know why he would call me for a warranty service!) Mike Jones called to let me know that they would have to charge me for the service. I asked them to go ahead. A day and half-later they finally called to tell me that there wasn't anything wrong with the car except the alignment was off a "little bit". I knew this because I had taken my car to a independent alignment shop for verification.
Mike and I went for a test drive and I told mike that nothing had changed in my car and told him the loaner they had given me drove beautifully (it was a 2008 ES350 with 10K miles). We went back to drive that but it was loaned before we got there and had to take another ES350 loaner. That car drove perfectly well as well which Mike refused to acknowledge. I gave up and came home. When I went over the service record, it stated that the car had no drift when they drove on a smooth road for 4 miles. I'd also told them that my car had repeated trans flares and they said they had reset something in the trans and test-driven it. Here is the funny part: The IN mileage was 12530. OUT mileage was 12530. Any guesses anyone?!!! Well yeah, they had just lied to me about the whole thing. I did not notice this until I came home though.
The trans flare on my car got worse after their "fix". I have attached a copy of their service record highlighting the fields of interest. Take a look.
All this from LEXUS. Supposed to be the most dependable brand. I am shocked by their service level. Please pass this information onto anyone you know. Everything I state here is a FACT and would be more than happy to show you corresponding service records.
I am here to post my not so happy story with Lexus. I am from Illinois.
Simply put, First dealership (Arlington Lexus) failed to fix my alignment issues and messed it up further. Second dealer (Woodfield Lexus) refused to even touch my car (despite Lexus HQ asking them to give me a second opinion which they refute and HQ states they did leave a voicemail). The third dealer (Lexus of Naperville) blatantly lied about fixing it (states he drove my car on smooth road for 4 miles and found no drift. His own paperwork however states that the IN and OUT mileage are both 12530!).
The car was perfectly fine for the first 9K miles. It started pulling to the left initially. Dealer "fixed" it. 3 weeks later, it started pulling to the right. Dealer apologized profusely and "fixed" it. 3 weeks later, the alignment was off (in the second 2 scenarios it was a slow process, not one fine day). Dealer squarely blamed it on me stating I hit a pothole. I told him that I had not and was extremely careful with the car especially after the first alignment. The third alignment was done incorrectly.
We agreed to speak to a field rep. In the mean time, I took my car to the second dealership and they said that alignment was not covered under warranty initially. When I told them politely that it was, he took his book out and stated that it was covered under warranty but only ONCE. My warranty does not state that and I told him so. He then replied that their warranty ALWAYS supercedes (which is incorrect per Magnuson Moss law) and that a lot of other things had not been specified in my book! He refused to look at the car without a diagnostic fee. I had to leave because I was not prepared to pay for a problem that was under warranty.
I met with the field Rep who initially stated every possible jargon in the book until we drove a 2008 ES350 demo. The demo did not exhibit any issues and he agreed to look into my car. Later next day I got a call that my car had been fixed and they told me that the preload on the steering was adjusted. When I went to pick up my car I was in for a shock. The paperwork stated that the car experienced NO drift (which is a lie) and they had adjusted the preload based on my request (lie again!). The problem still remained.
I called Lexus HQ regarding this. Early next week someone from HQ called and initially said that the field rep had mentioned that there were no issues. I told him that I disagreed and that I had paperwork which the service manager had signed that stated that I disagreed with the problem description and the resolution. He finally relented to my request to have the car taken to another dealership and I chose to go to Woodfield Lexus. I was asked to speak to Don O' Connor and I did and left him a voicemail. His associate (Sean) called me the next day to setup the appointment. I asked him why Don had not called and he replied that Don was busy. I had also asked one of their experts take my car for a test-drive.
On the day of the appointment, I went in on time at 7AM (note that I had a newborn at this time and it was very demanding to actually get there on time). I left my car, explained all the issues alllll over again. When asked to go for a test drive, the service manager said that I had to wait for Don until 8AM. I had a meeting but called to cancel it because this was important. They called me into Don's office (I learnt he was the General Service Manager only then). He asked me why I was there and I explained. He said he knew that but said the field rep had called to tell him not to touch my car because it was "fixed". I explained to him that I was there because the HQ asked to take a second opinion and had an appointment and had left him a voicemail. Don refuted everything! He stated that I had not called not had the HQ called him regarding this. I was asked to LEAVE.
I called the HQ again and the pacifiers they are apologized profusely and told me that the note said that this guy (Aaron) had left Don a message. Aaron called me later in the day to tell me that it was best for me to go to arbitration. I asked him what had changed between the Tuesday when he initially spoke to me and now and he replied it was based on the same information. So I asked him why he had wasted my time to which he did not reply.
Sick and tired, I contacted an attorney who was willing to take my case. He sent a letter to Lexus and they denied the claim. He then advised me to take the car to a third dealer.
I did and took the car to Lexus of Naperville. I told them about the car and its state and they agreed to look at it. The service manager there stated that alignment/wheel balancing was only covered ONCE (same story). I asked her to give me a copy of the same for my reference which she did. Their General Service Manager (dont know why he would call me for a warranty service!) Mike Jones called to let me know that they would have to charge me for the service. I asked them to go ahead. A day and half-later they finally called to tell me that there wasn't anything wrong with the car except the alignment was off a "little bit". I knew this because I had taken my car to a independent alignment shop for verification.
Mike and I went for a test drive and I told mike that nothing had changed in my car and told him the loaner they had given me drove beautifully (it was a 2008 ES350 with 10K miles). We went back to drive that but it was loaned before we got there and had to take another ES350 loaner. That car drove perfectly well as well which Mike refused to acknowledge. I gave up and came home. When I went over the service record, it stated that the car had no drift when they drove on a smooth road for 4 miles. I'd also told them that my car had repeated trans flares and they said they had reset something in the trans and test-driven it. Here is the funny part: The IN mileage was 12530. OUT mileage was 12530. Any guesses anyone?!!! Well yeah, they had just lied to me about the whole thing. I did not notice this until I came home though.
The trans flare on my car got worse after their "fix". I have attached a copy of their service record highlighting the fields of interest. Take a look.
All this from LEXUS. Supposed to be the most dependable brand. I am shocked by their service level. Please pass this information onto anyone you know. Everything I state here is a FACT and would be more than happy to show you corresponding service records.
Last edited by nharish; 10-25-08 at 08:45 PM.
10-25-08, 07:04 PM
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WOW - I am surprised to see that Lexus isn't handling this well, my experience has been relatively good. Stay way from Lexus of Naperville, I too had bad experiences with them. Not to harp on the same thing, but I would try to go to McGrath Lexus, their service dept. is excellent.
Also, you might want to block out your name and add., etc on the invoice.
Hope you get everything worked out...
Also, you might want to block out your name and add., etc on the invoice.
Hope you get everything worked out...
10-25-08, 07:21 PM
#4
Lexus Test Driver
UFB!!!!!! Sorry to hear that, Harish (yeah, and edit your personal info on invoice 
).
After being on this forum for over 2 years, one thing I learned for sure - not all Lexus dealerships were created equally. It’s truly a shame how some treat their customers. Wish you luck and hopefully habeeb's advice will work out for you.
).After being on this forum for over 2 years, one thing I learned for sure - not all Lexus dealerships were created equally. It’s truly a shame how some treat their customers. Wish you luck and hopefully habeeb's advice will work out for you.
10-25-08, 09:09 PM
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Thanks to all three of you for replying. I did what is in my control right now and that is to block my name and address! This whole thing is very unfortunate. As I stated in my first post, I drove my car with a field rep and the service tech. They both agreed there was a problem (after initial resistance until we drove a 2008 ES350 demo). The field rep even started looking at all the part numbers (steering column, suspension) to verify if they were the same as 2008. I personally have not been to Lexus of Naperville before this so I am going to take your word for it. However, it does look like they are not the only ones to blame over here. It seems like the whole episode was orchestrated by Lexus HQ. Its just unfortunate that they screwed up on such an important detail! I would have found out regardless cos I remembered the mileage at which I dropped the car and took delivery at. I even have a copy of the warranty that the dealer had that's different from ours (I asked the service manager assuming she would not give me a copy but she did anyway!).
I work as a Lead Engineer myself in a very reputable company in the Chicago suburbs and implement DSP and Wireless communications protocols! Believe me when I say this, I understand every jargon they have thrown at me now!
Torque Steer, Road Crown etc. etc. etc. I understand the physics behind a lot of this stuff. But my car pulls to the right when I brake, when I decelerate and accelerate (mildly) regardless of the crown of the road. The steering has to be held to my left for the car to go straight. The whole preload is nonsense. Despite this, when I let go of the steering when the crown is to the left, the car will drift away to the left. If I hold the steering on the same lane and accelerate, the car will go to the right. Same with deceleration and braking. I never asked for anything. In fact it was the field rep that said the foll:
"Initially the car is very stiff. It has now loosened up!" and they state I said that. I actually said the whole car feels loose. Why did they not go and tighten every nut and every bolt?!!
I honestly could not believe it when Woodfield Lexus refused to even look at my car after all the assurances I got from the HQ. It was insulting to say the least.
I have a video of all these problems on video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_KBIf2maWQ
Thanks a lot for all the support guys. I hope to get this issue resolved in an amicable manner. I earn my money honestly and work very hard for it and do not intend to write it off my money to these people. Please let me know if you have any suggestions. Is there anyway I can make the media aware of this?
I work as a Lead Engineer myself in a very reputable company in the Chicago suburbs and implement DSP and Wireless communications protocols! Believe me when I say this, I understand every jargon they have thrown at me now!
Torque Steer, Road Crown etc. etc. etc. I understand the physics behind a lot of this stuff. But my car pulls to the right when I brake, when I decelerate and accelerate (mildly) regardless of the crown of the road. The steering has to be held to my left for the car to go straight. The whole preload is nonsense. Despite this, when I let go of the steering when the crown is to the left, the car will drift away to the left. If I hold the steering on the same lane and accelerate, the car will go to the right. Same with deceleration and braking. I never asked for anything. In fact it was the field rep that said the foll:
"Initially the car is very stiff. It has now loosened up!" and they state I said that. I actually said the whole car feels loose. Why did they not go and tighten every nut and every bolt?!!
I honestly could not believe it when Woodfield Lexus refused to even look at my car after all the assurances I got from the HQ. It was insulting to say the least.
I have a video of all these problems on video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_KBIf2maWQ
Thanks a lot for all the support guys. I hope to get this issue resolved in an amicable manner. I earn my money honestly and work very hard for it and do not intend to write it off my money to these people. Please let me know if you have any suggestions. Is there anyway I can make the media aware of this?
10-25-08, 10:12 PM
#6
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First of all, sorry to hear about your experience. It's definitely un-Lexus like. But as twister mentioned, not all dealerships are the same.
Here's my experience with the media: I had a 1990 Mercedes Benz 300E 2.6 over 8 years ago. To make a long story short, I got into a car accident. It took forever to get the Benz fixed (try over 3 months). Got the run around from the MB service advisor (the MB dealership also did body work). I called corporate head quarters and told the general manager that it shouldn't take MB over 3 months to fix my car, and that if I didn't get my car back soon, I'd go ballistic with the media (newspaper, TV, etc). My car was repaired and returned to me in 2 weeks.
So yeah, as long as you can document your proof (keep good paper trail), you have the upperhand against Lexus. They don't want you going to the media and give them a bad name, they will want to fix this to your satisfaction (it's in their best interest).
Note: before you approach the media (if the situation deteriorates this far), make sure your facts and proof are in order. Things have a way of boomerang against you if you don't consider every single angle.
Hope you have better luck soon!
Here's my experience with the media: I had a 1990 Mercedes Benz 300E 2.6 over 8 years ago. To make a long story short, I got into a car accident. It took forever to get the Benz fixed (try over 3 months). Got the run around from the MB service advisor (the MB dealership also did body work). I called corporate head quarters and told the general manager that it shouldn't take MB over 3 months to fix my car, and that if I didn't get my car back soon, I'd go ballistic with the media (newspaper, TV, etc). My car was repaired and returned to me in 2 weeks.
So yeah, as long as you can document your proof (keep good paper trail), you have the upperhand against Lexus. They don't want you going to the media and give them a bad name, they will want to fix this to your satisfaction (it's in their best interest).
Note: before you approach the media (if the situation deteriorates this far), make sure your facts and proof are in order. Things have a way of boomerang against you if you don't consider every single angle.
Hope you have better luck soon!
10-26-08, 02:25 PM
#7
Lexus Test Driver
For whatever reason it looks like everyone is focusing on your alignment. This sounds like a problem with one or more of your tires (conicity). If there is uneven formation between the right and left sides of a tire, the difference in lateral force will cause the car to drift in the direction of the softer sidewall. This would be exaggerated when you accelerate, which might be what you're noticing.
Go to a tire shop and have them switch your front two wheels. Then test drive, and let us know if the car now pulls to the left. If there is no change, then obviously Lexus needs to take a look at other items. On the following TSB for Scion (a Toyota product as well), failure to address the problem through alignment and tire corrections leads them to make repairs to the power steering system:
http://toyota.justanswer.com/uploads...54_tc_pull.pdf
Good luck!
Go to a tire shop and have them switch your front two wheels. Then test drive, and let us know if the car now pulls to the left. If there is no change, then obviously Lexus needs to take a look at other items. On the following TSB for Scion (a Toyota product as well), failure to address the problem through alignment and tire corrections leads them to make repairs to the power steering system:
http://toyota.justanswer.com/uploads...54_tc_pull.pdf
Good luck!
Last edited by 15951; 10-26-08 at 02:30 PM.
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10-26-08, 07:15 PM
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Stormforge,
I agree and fortunately I have paper trails for everything. I have them scanned. Going to the media will be my last resort but I am wondering if Lexus gets to know that a lot of customers know about it! Would it be too much to ask each of you to send an email to a particular person showing him how strongly you feel about this issue? It would be great if each of you could help me
. I seriously have a problem with the way I am being treated.
15191,
Thanks for that info. The dealerships (at least they say so) have already tried it out. Would not hurt to try it again, I guess. Are you suggesting that I just switch around my front wheels or the back as well?
Thanks to all of you. At least I feel like I am being heard now.
I agree and fortunately I have paper trails for everything. I have them scanned. Going to the media will be my last resort but I am wondering if Lexus gets to know that a lot of customers know about it! Would it be too much to ask each of you to send an email to a particular person showing him how strongly you feel about this issue? It would be great if each of you could help me
. I seriously have a problem with the way I am being treated.15191,
Thanks for that info. The dealerships (at least they say so) have already tried it out. Would not hurt to try it again, I guess. Are you suggesting that I just switch around my front wheels or the back as well?
Thanks to all of you. At least I feel like I am being heard now.
10-27-08, 04:34 AM
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I am not surprised at all, although i love the Lexus cars i hate the Lexus corporate, honestly i do not see much difference in the way they treat their customers from the way the big 3 do it...the bottom line; it is all about the money for them, and customer service is secondary at best...i think Lexus should rethink their way as their quality is on a slow decline and customer service could be what keeps the buyers coming back…let’s be honest here Hyundai has surpassed Lexus in the “Initial Quality” rating and Buick has tied Lexus for Quality rating…that can not be good for the brand and their newer models have more TSIBs and general defects then ever…I had my rattling dash repaired and the service person told me that every ES350 they sell has this problem this is a big step backwards in quality mindset as they are fixing the problem at the dealer level instead of identifying the root cause of the problem and fixing it…if this is how they are going to deal with quality problem Lexus will be in a world of hurt…to me high level of TSIBs already shows their inability to fix the problems at their Root cause level…
10-27-08, 08:01 AM
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my car will drift slightly to the left when driving in the left lane
slightly to the right when in the right lane
and just about down the middle when driving in the middle lane of a 3 lane highway
I have gotten every excuse from low profile tires ( they are not THAT low, I have vehicles with 35 series tires and they drive straight ), to "thats the geometry of the suspension"
I was in the car with the tech and he showed me that driving in different lanes gets a different feedback............ so whats a person to do except deal with it??
slightly to the right when in the right lane
and just about down the middle when driving in the middle lane of a 3 lane highway
I have gotten every excuse from low profile tires ( they are not THAT low, I have vehicles with 35 series tires and they drive straight ), to "thats the geometry of the suspension"
I was in the car with the tech and he showed me that driving in different lanes gets a different feedback............ so whats a person to do except deal with it??
10-27-08, 07:36 PM
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Rob350,
My car does the same thing. Except it goes above&beyond! I could be on a lane that crowns to the left... and a mild acceleration (between 30-40mph) will lead the car to the right anyway. Braking and deceleration mange to do the same. You are right. All I get are excuses. The problem I have is (a) the attitude and (b) their own loaners do not exhibit this problem. I am banking on my attorney right now. Lets see.
My car does the same thing. Except it goes above&beyond! I could be on a lane that crowns to the left... and a mild acceleration (between 30-40mph) will lead the car to the right anyway. Braking and deceleration mange to do the same. You are right. All I get are excuses. The problem I have is (a) the attitude and (b) their own loaners do not exhibit this problem. I am banking on my attorney right now. Lets see.
10-28-08, 05:48 AM
#12
........... i think Lexus should rethink their way as their quality is on a slow decline and customer service could be what keeps the buyers coming back…let’s be honest here Hyundai has surpassed Lexus in the “Initial Quality” rating and Buick has tied Lexus for Quality rating…that can not be good for the brand and their newer models have more TSIBs and general defects then ever… …if this is how they are going to deal with quality problem Lexus will be in a world of hurt…to me high level of TSIBs already shows their inability to fix the problems at their Root cause level…
This is so true across the board for Lexus brand. Even their top of the line LS has a number of issues, and the handling of problems by dealers is getting worse. Currently, we have four Lexus vehicles in our driveway, and will be replacing two of them in the next six months. It ain't going to be another Lexus. We used to consider ourselves hardcore Lexus fans.
10-28-08, 04:33 PM
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I was considering a Infinity next, but all the AWD ones I drive in feel- well they feel like trucks. You can hear the road and you can hear the drivetrain.
Maybe I will drive one without AWD, who needs the AWD anyhow for the few times a year it snows she drives my Cherokee and I drive my F-250SD, both of which drive PERFECTLY F'ING STRAIGHT!!
POS of Ford and a POS Jeep and they drive down the road better then a Lexus, heck my 20 year old Mazdas drive without wandering in its lanes also.
Maybe I will drive one without AWD, who needs the AWD anyhow for the few times a year it snows she drives my Cherokee and I drive my F-250SD, both of which drive PERFECTLY F'ING STRAIGHT!!
POS of Ford and a POS Jeep and they drive down the road better then a Lexus, heck my 20 year old Mazdas drive without wandering in its lanes also.
10-29-08, 09:02 AM
#14
Lexus Test Driver
my car will drift slightly to the left when driving in the left lane
slightly to the right when in the right lane
and just about down the middle when driving in the middle lane of a 3 lane highway
I have gotten every excuse from low profile tires ( they are not THAT low, I have vehicles with 35 series tires and they drive straight ), to "thats the geometry of the suspension"
I was in the car with the tech and he showed me that driving in different lanes gets a different feedback............ so whats a person to do except deal with it??
slightly to the right when in the right lane
and just about down the middle when driving in the middle lane of a 3 lane highway
I have gotten every excuse from low profile tires ( they are not THAT low, I have vehicles with 35 series tires and they drive straight ), to "thats the geometry of the suspension"
I was in the car with the tech and he showed me that driving in different lanes gets a different feedback............ so whats a person to do except deal with it??
What's NOT normal is if the car actually pulls to one side, regardless of the grade of the road.
10-29-08, 09:05 AM
#15
Lexus Test Driver
This is so true across the board for Lexus brand. Even their top of the line LS has a number of issues, and the handling of problems by dealers is getting worse. Currently, we have four Lexus vehicles in our driveway, and will be replacing two of them in the next six months. It ain't going to be another Lexus. We used to consider ourselves hardcore Lexus fans.
If you want proof that Lexus quality is going downhill, pick ANY pre-2006 Lexus and drive it. Quiet...no rattles. They spent money on design changes for 2006, and the beancounters made sure the car was "value engineered", which resulted in rattles from hell. I've NEVER had a car that creaked and rattled like my Lexus.