That's good to know. Others have said the only effect of the trans flare is a brief tach needle jump and engine rev during a shift. If that happens infrequently, I'd consider it a minor issue and would hope Lexus resolves the problem within a year or so. What you're saying, though, changes the picture because the flare effects may also include engine hesitation or jerking / surging. That sounds like a potential danger on the road and I wonder whether it could get much worse over time.

Until now, my impression has been the ES transmission flare is virtually unnoticeable (if the driver isn't looking at the tach when it happens). It's a guessing game to figure out whether your experience with ES hesitation and jerking / surging is very rare, mildly unlikely, or somewhat common among ES 350 owners. If it's a fairly common ES trait, then that would be unacceptable to me.

I wouldn't want to do the simulation tests you mentioned because, not knowing much about cars, I'm afraid I'd damage my current car's powertrain. If that's what happens during an ES flare, I'd suspect many flares over time would really do some serious powertrain damage. Hesitation and jerking / surging shouldn't happen, especially in a brand new entry-luxury car, let alone a 10-year old jalopy. How can hesitation and jerking / surging be reconciled with the frequently mentioned Lexus response that it is normal operation for the ES? I still don't think I have the whole picture.

 

The ES 350, Camry V6, Avalon, and RX all share this powertrain, right? And Toyota's been selling these vehicles for the past two years (I think 2006 was the first year for this particular V6). I wonder how many of those vehicles are now on the road.

 

In 07, the 6 speed tranny was introduced. I believe the ES and Camry in 07 are the only two with the 6 speed.

 

Thru Nov '07, 74,852 ES350's and 434,277 Camry's (don't know how many were V6) have been sold.

Probably close to similar numbers in '06 when both were new.

 

Correct. I think I read Avalon will add the 6 speed in the '08's

 

MD is right about the 6 speed.

Avalon owners have their own transmission issues. If you do a search Avalon transmission problems.....get ready for


As for your initial understanding of ES/Camry transmission...do you think the use of the description Flare somehow allowed you to discount what it truly meant... as in slipping? I wondered about that cozy label for something that is a serious slipping of a transmission and what it may translate to one who never, or as yet, had not experienced it.

Anyone with it will tell you they don't want it in the car, any car for that matter, tolerate after purchase is something they must do, or trade or other. When it lags pulling out into traffic it will scare the you know what out of you and it is without question causing damage when it happens.

I don't blame you for not using your current car to simulate but that is a way to understand what is happening. I started to post put in neutral when up to 10mph, note rpm and then add 800 more and shove in drive but backed off that for safety reasons....LOL...unless you are in a big empty parking lot or road that has no other traffic, that could be ugly, so I used the at a stop description being overly cautious in case you actually tried it.

 

The ES 350, Camry V6, Avalon, and RX share the same engine. The 2008 ES, Camry V6, and Avalon share the same trans but the 2008 RX uses a 5-speed. Man, the 2007 Avalon's 5-speed must be truly awful since Toyota replaced it for model year 2008 with our favorite electronically intelligent 6-speed. Toyota considers that an Avalon transmission upgrade?

It's amazing Lexus would even consider calling a hesitation and surge problem nothing more than "normal" ES transmission operation.

My car-buying experience so far: list of contenders narrowed down to ES ; learn about ES "flare" problem ; discover "flare" is just a tach needle jump and engine rev, barely noticeable, if at all ; hear the "flare" is accompanied by hesitation or surge . What next? New York Times: "Toyota Permanently Resolves Flares - Replaces ECU, Software". I wish. Car-buying saga continues...

 

You really need to test drive some sample ES cars. Not all flares are the same. Some are worse than others. A lot worse. I'm gonna test drive a potential car for purchase tomorrow. I hope it's a good one.

Many people on here claim their car is ok or the flares don't do much. It's really tough to tell how big the true problem is b/c people on this board are a certain type of buyer and only a small % of the total number of ES buyers.

 

They call the minor flare normal operation. As to hesitation and surge issues, I have not experienced that with my car. A small jerk during the flare, yes. Hesitation...well that was on the 3.3L 2004 Sienna we used to own and a whole different story. But not on the ES. GOOD LUCK!

 

Carma,

Well, sorry for any confusion, I flat did not know they are putting this transmission in the 08 Avalons out there.

In my 2 experiences, the slipping starts off minor as in 200 to 600 RPM and ends up severe over time, in excess of 2,000.

Codex,

You cannot rule it out on a test drive, been there, tried that before accepting my 2nd ES. It was not present on a stone cold start test drive and believe me I set up the test drive cold as a condition of me accepting the 2nd one, within days it was saying hello, several hundred rpm ending up over 2,000 over time.

As to percentages: It is a widespread issue, if not there would be a fix for it. You'd see people posting their 2nd transmissions put in their car were just fine. Review the replacement transmission poll on here somewhere and see over 90 percent of 2nd and third transmissions put into cars also failed. That indicates a serious problem with the transmission in general or else new replacement transmissions would solve the problem once and for all.

 

My '08 ES350 is only a month old and I have less than 1,000 miles on it. So far I have not noticed any transmission flare. Is that something that might happen as the car gets older? I do notice that it does not always shift out of the lower gears when I am driving slow in the city, but that might be the way that it's designed. At any rate, it is not a problem for me.

 

My ES 350 ultra was purchased in August 2006 and has performed according to specs from the start. Its gone through another rough winter here in the Midwest. I have no complaints:- no transmission problems, no engine noise, no wind noise, etc.

A few unhappy owners here have posted hundreds of negative posts (one former owner approaching 2000 posts!)

My car works well, I wonder why there is such dedication on part of a few to trash the car so many owners think is great. All you new owners please be reassured that owners in general are extremely happy owners.

 

I am glad to hear your car runs well. The transmission issue is more widespread than you think. Same with the cold engine knock. Call the 800 Lexus customer service number and have them fill you in. They have admitted to me that Lexus is trying their best to develop a repair for the flare issue. The cold engine knock is a "normal" characteristic of the engine, but they are not sure of long term damage and have assured me that I will be covered if there is any kind of failure due to the knock.

I also suggest to read the comments on Yahoo auto. Pull up the ES350 and take a look at the "trash" others are talking about the ES350. These are owners that don't even post on this forum. Then their is Consumer Reports and their drop in rating on the V-6 camry and ES350. Do I need to go on?

Again, I am glad your car runs well. But, there are widespread issues with this car.

 

If Club Lexus owner/member content cannot be relied on as you imply in your post, particularly the subject of this thread, the transmission, then why the 180 turn by Consumer Reports to align with Club Lexus owner input?


A year ago and still...Ignore the member contribution content, just a small group "trashing" the car was/is the claim..., and yet a year later even Consumer Reports findings reveal 50 percent below average rating for the vehicle in it's findings in order to have ever arrived at an overall average rating for the car.

Just curious if you have ever taken the time to call or write Lexus and insist they do something about the transmission or ask why on earth your vehicle is absent engine noise, wind noise, and yet you repeatedly see where it is also claimed it is normal operation of the vehicle to have those issues present? You have also seen dozens indicate they were forced to prove their transmission was slipping, 85 to 90 percent failure rate of replacement transmissions, ever consider asking why so many people are put through that in the face of your repeated claims your vehicle does not do any of it? These people want a car that operates as you claim yours does, not set on trashing anything but the defects they actually experience you claim do not exist in your vehicle and who would blame them for wanting what you claim you have?

Club Lexus was months ahead of Consumer Reports humbling experience of having to do a 180 and has proven out to be a reliable and viable source for info on the car, any Lexus for that matter, in spite of fanatic potshotting visited on those amassing the wealth of data, good or bad, on the vehicles.

 

Why would anyone admit that they made a bad decision in buying the ES350 if in fact they did not believe they did. I did, I have no one to blame except myself. I can without reservation state that the ES350 has been my most disappointing car purchase of the past 46 years. It could be that I expected too much for my 43k. For many years I drove a Lincoln Town Car, traded every year. It cost me a a whopping $3500 to drive a new car every year, of course that was many moons ago mid 80s to early 90s. I moved up north and bought a 1989 4runner 4 wheel drive-quite a change but it was a good change put 280,000 miles on that jewel before the rust got it. I traded a 2002 altima on the my ES. For my money the altima was the best value of any car I ever owned. $23k and it had all the goodies, never spent a dime other than oil and tires in 70,000 miles. No rattles, no paint chips, no tranny issues, no engine noise. I guess 2nd childhood set in and I just had to go "upscale" again. Kids grown, college behind us for three kids so we could afford it, why not. Well maybe as you age you expect a $ value for a $ spent. The ES did not provide that value. Wish it had, sorry it didnt but if the truth keeps anyone else from making a bad decision then the "negative post should be appreciated"