amf1932

Yeah, me!

aeroengine

But the explanation for the airbag not deploying in this case is the the metal rails for the roll up door mechanism broke from the 2 x 6s and the sheet rock surrounding ther mountings and acted like a soft spring and effectively broke the lunge of the car. The broken heavy wood on the door however is indicative of a fairly sharp impact to the door - not inconsistent with the estimated 10-15 mph impact - I was infact surprised that the airbags didn't deploy but watching the spring effect of the whole door mechanism causes me to conclude it was just under the trigger threshold.

I tried to duplicate in a parking lot what I saw occur over the 15-20 feet before my wife hit the door by putting my foot on the throttle to launch it 10-15 mph and then taking my foot off and breaking hard enough to get the nose down to where it impacted the door, it consumes about 50 feet no matter how goood you can get at this. If you saw a plan view of our driveway there is not 50 feet to get lined up to hit the door the way my wife did. The only explanation is that she must have already had her foot hovering over the brake when the uncomanded acceleration occured. My wife never touched the gear lever until after the impact to the door when the car was stopped and she put it into reverse to back away. I believe the car wasn't going fast enough for the car to have overcome the brakes as in some of the other instances and she may have been going slow enough for reverse to engage after the impact. Compared to the others she is very lucky to have been going so slow and with her foot already above the brake.

As I stated before, I am a liscensed Professional Mechanical Engineer and I believe what I saw happening was entirely consistent with my wife's account and my measurements at the scene and tests afterwards. I've had other engineers at the NHTSA and the local dealer describe the "fly-by-wire" system in the ES350 and some of the speed interlocks for gear shifting and "start-stop" 3 second delay which causes me to conclude most of the incidents listed by others on NHTSA website website are real and can be explained by a "hardover" type failure in the ECU most likely being caused by the cruise control module thinking it has been activated when it hasn't and the module is seeing a significant speed deficit to the "commanded speed". This system is so highly integrated you cannot isolate the cruise control function by any electrical or mechanical means to our current knowledge. Descriptions relating to human factors not being able to stop high speed occurances are not unrealistic when you consider you have to hold in the start-stop button 3 seconds for the engine to turn off and in a panic you're not likely to do that coupled with the speed interlock in the ECU/transmission that prevent shifting to reverse and neutral at high engine or driveline speeds.

If you believe our story is far fetched - then I would say enjoy your Lexus. Its hard to admit when you've spent $40K for a car that it may have been a mistake we each have to learn our own lessons.

I've done enough research now to conclude I will not again drive an ES350 that has already been involved with one of these incidents because the data shows for those cars that survived their first incident, they repeat randomly, sometimes with serious life threatening consequences.

The question is whether Lexus will continue to trott out "driver-error" or "all weather floormats" as a red-herring until enough people get killed that they have incurred a tremendous class action liability and a hit on their reputation a-kin to the Audi. If they don't take this seriously they may wind up giving up 50% of their market and you will own a car worth a lot less than it does now. Even if it was driver error, look what that explanation got Audi! They better hope it wasn't driver error.

What surprises me is that my car is one of the few that is intact with NO major damage to its systems or physically with airbags going off. If I were Lexus I would have bought the car back so fast it would have made my head spin and it would have been on the 1st jet freighter back to Tokyo this weekend for an extensive battery of tests including a fully instrumented EMP test to try and trigger what happened.

amf1932

Is this the type place to get an EMP test? http://www.ottawa.drdc-rddc.gc.ca/ht...333-emp_e.html

LexBob2

amf, thanks for the info. I'm off to Ottawa.

amf1932

Please let me know how much this procedure costs.

psp

Hi,

1. Sorry but, I agree with Phoenix.
2. The Lexus is pretty free-wheeling compared to other cars I've had. Sometimes pressing the brake pedal lightly (not engaging the brake calipers) makes the car feel like it goes a little faster.
3. When first started the idle RPM can be a tad high. This is to get the engine warm so the cats heat up and the car can get that deluxe emission rating. At the high RPM it can get away from you if you are not in control. I do not doubt your wife's driving experience, this is just my experience with this car.
4. Whenever I want to go extra slow in this car I actually ride the brake rather than let my foot hover over the brake pedal. This is true for me with any auto-magic transmission.

This car is not as much of a point and go car as say a 4 cylinder Camry, a Honda Fit, or a Ford Focus. It is fairly complicated, has quite a bit of power, and needs to be respected. It is not as easy to drive as some other cars in the Lexus line. It commands some respect and you need to know what you are doing behind the wheel.

Pheonix

aeroengine - when you quoted me, i was reffering to don's long post about his throttle plate going open & the car going very fast without being able to stop it.

all i was reffering to in my previous post is that i'd take a systematic approach to it if it were mine.





psp the brakes are vacuum assisted. two things may be happening. the rpm's can sometimes have a very minor rise because of the now slightly higher amount of air sucked down the intake manifold. now. when the car is in motion it's a different sensation. when you're coasting & get on the brake. the torque convertor will unlock & suddenly for an instant there is less drag on the engine. which makes it feel like the car jumps forwards just a tea tiny bit. (when really it's just deccellerating at a lower rate)

aeroengine

Make no mistake what I observed was a full launch from almost a coasting stop with a minimum of 2500 RPM being applied like passing gear - no second order effects - I've observed my wife driving up like this a hundred times before with no lurches. The engine was warm as she had been out shopping. As for EMP, I'm speaking of an industrial test for isulation and crosstalk of the electrical components.

Pheonix

again. im not talking to you lol i mean no offense, but you're having a conversation with yourself lol.

aeroengine

The local Lexus of Bellevue here in Washington State once I began talking to the Manager did a great job trading in my ES350 for a New 2008 RX at almost his invoice. I predict he will make no or very little money but has produced a satisfied customer and I would definitely trade with them again. I wish I could say the same for Lexus of North America. Lexus of North America is developing a reputation of stonewalling on problems where liability is concerned. They offered our dealer no support in this matter. I had proposed Lexus of North America throw in a NAV system so I could get my Blue Tooth back and in exchange I would give them a full release on any future liability relative to the damage on my garage door or other claims and they said "pass". Now for Lexus of North America they are in the denial phase of the problem. Going forward the issue for them won't be whether they will eventually fix the problem and cover consequential damages but rather an additional major punitive judgement which will be much greater because they tried to ignore it and cover it up.

sfuad

When I bought my lexus two months I faced the same problem. Took the car to two different dealers with about 1100 miles on it. What I felt was car would surge ahead while you are applying brakes. My car remained in shop for two days at first dealer and about 8 days with second dealer. The dealer has those typical comments that car is working as designed. Honestly, I was not happy, but I had no other option but to accept it. Lexus threw in complimentary platinium extended warranty. I still feel the same problem and they tell me its working fine. I dont have any all weather mats, all I have was carpet mats.

2thfixr

Quick question for the OP. Did the rear wheels leave skid marks? It would be logical that in the event of an unintended acceleration event, someone braking with full force should be able to lock up the non-drive wheels and leave skid marks.

jerfitz

Is it possible to lock up the wheels with the ABS braking system so you could see a skid mark on the road???

aeroengine

In our case we have a gloss finish on our aggregate driveway so its smooth to the point where it would be hard to make skid marks. The short 15 feet was consumed by my wifes reaction time coupled with the dynamics of putting on the brakes enough to put the nose of the car down just before the garage door caught her. When the brakes were applied it some what unloaded the rear so on the shiney surface it just didn't leave a mark that I could see. Very happy now with our RX350.

2thfixr

Did they buyback the ES?