PsychDoc

I guess peanut butter and jelly is "cuisine of the year."

LOL

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15833397/

ES350Bob

Well, I did feel awkward that our ES350 so closely resembles it's cheaper cousin until I saw the side by side near dead ringer pics posted of the Maxima and the GS over on the GS board under...sorry have to ask...now I feel less so about our own resembling at least another by same manufacturer.

I have to say though, remove and re-attach those side mirrors to the door panel on that Camry and......poof you have an ES for all intents and purposes.

PsychDoc

Hi Bob,

I thought you might get a kick out of this post of mine over at Car Chat. I don't suppose many of us get over that way much.

Sadly, our car gives you a lot of bang for the buck but as a pure driving machine it's a disaster.

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...55#post2252855

ES350Bob

I had not yet visited that forum, interesting post and several interesting responses I might add.

My view is anytime any company heralds design issues that are totally unrelated to performance of the car, other performance depending on product hawked, and which are instead culture limited, there is going to be a problem.

LexBob2

That's why a lot of cars (ES, Avalon, Buicks etc.) genrally skew towards older buyers. At some point, comfort becomes a higher priority than outright performace. It's mysterious but seems to happen a lot. One of Avalon's stated objectives with the new gen car, was to lower the average age of its buyers. I bet it's still up there in the high-50's, maybe even low 60's.

dreyfus

I test drove the Avalon before buying my ES350. My wife and I both liked the interior and the acceleration, but we both thought it was way too much a geezermobile for us. We weren't willing to help them lower their age statistics.

The ES350 is not a geezermobile, and it has nicer, well, everything. It isn't as sporty as the TL we drove, nor is it as sexy as the IS we also drove, but it does have the comfort, luxury, room, pickup, reliability, and mpg value we were looking for.

Pheonix

Wait until the free Lexus servicing, or the warranty runs out & some amount of **** hits the fan. You'll be more than happy to love the fact your luxury car can be mechanically rebuilt using nothing more than any Camry platform's v6 related parts (because what you've yet seen underneath is that your car is still stamped Toyota, with Camry part numbers). You'll not only enjoy much higher parts avalibility than any other imported luxury car in North America, you'll enjoy the insanely lower parts costs & paying no more than 2/3 the labor rate at a Toyota dealer (normally less at an indy mechanic too).

I'm just going to go ahead & say it. By the time that happens for you bob. You'll be faced with paying $120-130/h labor rates to pee in a marble lined bathroom VS paying $70-80/h at a 'yota dealer to pee in a normal bathroom.

Keep in mind... There is no differance in a Toyota, or Lexus technitian, or where the parts come from. They are all completely interchangeable. I know. I do both LMAO.





The only time Lexus servicing makes since is when you're faced with multiple days worth of work & get a brand new free loaner car. It's an expencive loaner car, but that's about the only trade-off you can say thats good.
(You *could* count lexus serving. But because servicing done at Toyota, counts on the car in the same system as servicing done @ Lexus.)









Trust me. In about 3 1/2 years, you'll start to *love* the fact you've got a big, great looking, heavy *** Camry. That's why after a couple of years of takling about it on the older model forums. Nobody cares about the roots anymore. What's wrong with being a Camry anyway? It's been the #1 selling car for like the last 10 years & the things are freaking tanks. I'd rather have a Camry XLE than the most expencive 4 door caddy (non-sporty mind you). And they cost like 2/3 of the asking price LoL! (And hold value much stronger LoL! Detroit is so sad.)

Pheonix

And what these two are saying is right on.

The Avalon competes for a different marketing segment. It's the largest Imported car in that class, anywhere near that price. For a brief time, the AAvalon was the largest Japanese imported car period. Including the LS400, and Q45. It sits on a quite stretched Camry platform. Not the one the Camry/ES/ex Windom share that's the same base chassie.
Food for thought.

onsknht

FWIW - - My Camry SE is powerful yet still very sporty and retains the same dimensions as the ES and other Camry variants, some differences you fellas may be interested in if you're so inclined.

The SE comes with the following performance mods...

1. A cross tower rear-strut support.
2. Added rear frame/body supports
3. Shorter suspension springs and the car sits lower than the ES and XLE/LE
4. Rebound springs inside of the struts
5. Thicker and Solid anti-sway bars

My SE in no way would be considered a curve champ, but compared to the XLE (more tuned like an ES) there's a night/day difference in handling... Body roll especially is removed on my SE when compared to the XLE, but still present. I've found however that the suspension starts getting good when pushed, but half-assed corners inbetween comfort and performance give some uneasy-ness, grab it a little firmer and confidence is regained.

Pheonix

Well. The SE doesn't ahve shorter springs. The springs are just higher rates.
The only *real* change you feel on that SE is that the struts have alot more dampening on them. More typical of a Japanese car. I wish those struts were standard on all the new models.


Japanese luxury cars (Which the camry itself is mind you in their market.) use softish springs, with your typical high rate of dampening. japanese like well dampened cars, even if they're floaty. I love high dampening rates with any springs. Just alot better control & feeling without really sacraficing too much ride-wise.



The ES is no compairson to the Camry anymore in handling. The ES steering rack has always been different, but it's just not even in the same league anymore. Because ontop of the even *more* steering numbness, the ES is now starting to become a really heavy car. It's not the 3200lb car it use to be. It's up in base 3000GT, SC/GS weights of yester year.

LexBob2

That's exactly the same as our thought process and what we ended up doing. We're approaching gezzerhood, but weren't ready for the Avalon or Lucerne (both good cars) quite yet.

onsknht

I agree on the spring rates being different, but if they're the same length with stiffer coils, then why is the ground clearance lower?