Vibration at high speed: driving me nuts!
09-16-18, 02:32 PM
#31
Ok,couple other questions come to mind as I read the 1st post for the third time:
A) you had lower control arms replaced, but NOT the ball joints? Typically the new arms come with lower ball joints, or new ones are installed with them. Are tou sure about that?
B) if you rock the wheel holding 9/3 o’clock, you have Zero play? I cannot imagine that on original tie rods at 300k miles, especially on NJ roads and winters (I used to live in NYC and know the conditions).
A) you had lower control arms replaced, but NOT the ball joints? Typically the new arms come with lower ball joints, or new ones are installed with them. Are tou sure about that?
B) if you rock the wheel holding 9/3 o’clock, you have Zero play? I cannot imagine that on original tie rods at 300k miles, especially on NJ roads and winters (I used to live in NYC and know the conditions).
1) That’s right. I couldn’t get the ball joint cotter pins completely out so I decided to keep the original ones. I also read that Lexus ones are much better than any aftermarket ball joints, so it made me feel better keeping the original ones.
2) No play. I don’t know if the tie rod ends have been serviced before I got the car, but I haven’t touched them since 173,000 Miles.
Also, I did an inspection of the driver CV axle and took a picture of what the other shop has pointed out to me when I started feeling a strong vibration after my work. There is a 1/4” gap between the differential and the inner axle joint. It appears that the fluid is seeping out of there as well, but I’m not 100% on that. I wanna try replacing the axle one more time and carefully inspecting that the bearing and the diffrential spins smoothly. Also making sure the axle seats all the way into the differential.
09-16-18, 10:01 PM
#34
Lexus Champion
FEQ makes a good axle.
https://www.partsgeek.com/catalog/19..._axle_assembly
On the play axle to transaxle some movement is normal.
https://www.partsgeek.com/catalog/19..._axle_assembly
On the play axle to transaxle some movement is normal.
09-19-18, 04:01 AM
#35
My Timken bearing was in fact a koyo - so one more good source for bearings.
The cotter pins were a disaster or me; sheared it off (or what was left after an hour of trying) backed off the nut and drilled it. Awful. Our Odyssey has reusable clips there... advice on a better method here would help at least two people haha
Don’t mean to hijack but is it a bad idea to use a pickle fork if the balljoint is going to be reused? Seems like a bad idea, but the little screw-pressure tool doesn’t fit between the bolt and the axel’s end where it goes into the hub.
My headrest does that too, but the car is overall smooth and the right bearing is original and doesn’t groan, no play either. Please elaborate on this test using the coil
Lastly, I lost all faith in shops doing tires right. Most guys don’t care about being perfect. There are 360° to a wheel... many throw the weights within 5 or 10 of where the machine says too and call it a day. This is simply because they don’t care (keep in mind they are at work, your car isn’t their baby) and also I have found the vast majority of well intentioned Meticulous people expect less from/ignore more issue with their cars at 30,000 miles than most of the guys and girls on this forum would at 300,000. I have literally rebalanced tires in my driveway after a shop failed to. That’s why I do my own as often as possible. A mechanic I know told me Monday that he got his digital balanced used online for $700. I will ABSOLUTELY have on in my shop the same year I build it for this reason. Not to save money, but for the sake of perfection and keeping other hands off my car. I’d buy a used alignment machine and a 4 post, too, if the opportunity came up and I had the money
Pleases report back
The cotter pins were a disaster or me; sheared it off (or what was left after an hour of trying) backed off the nut and drilled it. Awful. Our Odyssey has reusable clips there... advice on a better method here would help at least two people haha
Don’t mean to hijack but is it a bad idea to use a pickle fork if the balljoint is going to be reused? Seems like a bad idea, but the little screw-pressure tool doesn’t fit between the bolt and the axel’s end where it goes into the hub.
My headrest does that too, but the car is overall smooth and the right bearing is original and doesn’t groan, no play either. Please elaborate on this test using the coil
Lastly, I lost all faith in shops doing tires right. Most guys don’t care about being perfect. There are 360° to a wheel... many throw the weights within 5 or 10 of where the machine says too and call it a day. This is simply because they don’t care (keep in mind they are at work, your car isn’t their baby) and also I have found the vast majority of well intentioned Meticulous people expect less from/ignore more issue with their cars at 30,000 miles than most of the guys and girls on this forum would at 300,000. I have literally rebalanced tires in my driveway after a shop failed to. That’s why I do my own as often as possible. A mechanic I know told me Monday that he got his digital balanced used online for $700. I will ABSOLUTELY have on in my shop the same year I build it for this reason. Not to save money, but for the sake of perfection and keeping other hands off my car. I’d buy a used alignment machine and a 4 post, too, if the opportunity came up and I had the money
Pleases report back
09-19-18, 09:19 PM
#36
My Timken bearing was in fact a koyo - so one more good source for bearings.
The cotter pins were a disaster or me; sheared it off (or what was left after an hour of trying) backed off the nut and drilled it. Awful. Our Odyssey has reusable clips there... advice on a better method here would help at least two people haha
Don’t mean to hijack but is it a bad idea to use a pickle fork if the balljoint is going to be reused? Seems like a bad idea, but the little screw-pressure tool doesn’t fit between the bolt and the axel’s end where it goes into the hub.
My headrest does that too, but the car is overall smooth and the right bearing is original and doesn’t groan, no play either. Please elaborate on this test using the coil
Lastly, I lost all faith in shops doing tires right. Most guys don’t care about being perfect. There are 360° to a wheel... many throw the weights within 5 or 10 of where the machine says too and call it a day. This is simply because they don’t care (keep in mind they are at work, your car isn’t their baby) and also I have found the vast majority of well intentioned Meticulous people expect less from/ignore more issue with their cars at 30,000 miles than most of the guys and girls on this forum would at 300,000. I have literally rebalanced tires in my driveway after a shop failed to. That’s why I do my own as often as possible. A mechanic I know told me Monday that he got his digital balanced used online for $700. I will ABSOLUTELY have on in my shop the same year I build it for this reason. Not to save money, but for the sake of perfection and keeping other hands off my car. I’d buy a used alignment machine and a 4 post, too, if the opportunity came up and I had the money
Pleases report back
The cotter pins were a disaster or me; sheared it off (or what was left after an hour of trying) backed off the nut and drilled it. Awful. Our Odyssey has reusable clips there... advice on a better method here would help at least two people haha
Don’t mean to hijack but is it a bad idea to use a pickle fork if the balljoint is going to be reused? Seems like a bad idea, but the little screw-pressure tool doesn’t fit between the bolt and the axel’s end where it goes into the hub.
My headrest does that too, but the car is overall smooth and the right bearing is original and doesn’t groan, no play either. Please elaborate on this test using the coil
Lastly, I lost all faith in shops doing tires right. Most guys don’t care about being perfect. There are 360° to a wheel... many throw the weights within 5 or 10 of where the machine says too and call it a day. This is simply because they don’t care (keep in mind they are at work, your car isn’t their baby) and also I have found the vast majority of well intentioned Meticulous people expect less from/ignore more issue with their cars at 30,000 miles than most of the guys and girls on this forum would at 300,000. I have literally rebalanced tires in my driveway after a shop failed to. That’s why I do my own as often as possible. A mechanic I know told me Monday that he got his digital balanced used online for $700. I will ABSOLUTELY have on in my shop the same year I build it for this reason. Not to save money, but for the sake of perfection and keeping other hands off my car. I’d buy a used alignment machine and a 4 post, too, if the opportunity came up and I had the money
Pleases report back
I got my Beck/Arnley bearings in today. They are in fact made by Koyo in Japan which is very reassuring. I know they will be quality parts, unlike the Axles I've been using.
Regarding the ball joint tool. I know what you're talking about and I've heard the pickle fork tool can damage the boot, but I honestly don't know.
There is a video from speedkar99 on Youtube for a Toyota Sienna wheel bearing. In the video, he kept the ball joint attached to the knuckle and disconnected it from the lower control arm instead.
The more I drive the car on the highway with this vibration, the more my mind keeps convincing me that it's an issue with the CV axle.
If you think about it, the only thing that's drastically different from my recent work on the car is the driver side CV Axle. The rotors/pads shouldn't have any affect on it.
The car has always been vibrating at speed, but it wasn't so consistent until I put in a different CV axle in.
If it was the bearings, I feel like the vibration would have stayed the same as it was before, but nowadays it's way more pronounced and I can replicate it every single time without fail.
In the past, the car would vibrate at speed but very intermittently and only during very specific conditions.
I'm thinking of ordering another one or two CV axles from RockAuto and swapping them out to see how the vibration changes.
I was thinking of trying the FEQ or a Toyota Reman CV Axle, but their return policy isn't as DIY'er friendly as RockAuto's.
The biggest challenge right now is finding free time to do the work in between work and school. Time is such a finite resource when you need it most.
Last edited by Hayk; 09-19-18 at 09:29 PM.
09-20-18, 02:51 PM
#37
Yes, it’s a bad idea to separate a ball joint with a pickle fork if you intend to reuse the ball joint and/or boot. Usually the boot is torn. There are multiple other methods, and there are different sized U-press tie rod separators that fit both the tie rods and lower ball joint on this car. Heat is an often under-utilized tool here, btw. Even with a press in hand, I would not employ it until I soaked the joint with Kroil the night before (I rarely spontaneously do suspension work on any given day 
), and then hit it with a propane torch for a minute or two before hand.
At the end of the day. If you cannot get a castle nut off, you just take a side grinder with a cutting blade and cut it off. It Just takes a few minutes.
“
If it was the bearings, I feel like the vibration would have stayed the same as it was before, but nowadays it's way more pronounced and I can replicate it every single time without fail. “
No, that is what it would do. The wear progresses, not plateaus.
There is nothing here to really jump to the axle as culprit. Trying to come up with a reason it’s NOT most likely bearings given the symptoms and mileage in a fwd car is mental energy better spent elsewhere! If you are “that kind of person,” don’t over-think this. I know the tendency!
), and then hit it with a propane torch for a minute or two before hand.At the end of the day. If you cannot get a castle nut off, you just take a side grinder with a cutting blade and cut it off. It Just takes a few minutes.
“
If it was the bearings, I feel like the vibration would have stayed the same as it was before, but nowadays it's way more pronounced and I can replicate it every single time without fail. “
No, that is what it would do. The wear progresses, not plateaus.
There is nothing here to really jump to the axle as culprit. Trying to come up with a reason it’s NOT most likely bearings given the symptoms and mileage in a fwd car is mental energy better spent elsewhere! If you are “that kind of person,” don’t over-think this. I know the tendency!
Last edited by Oro; 09-20-18 at 02:55 PM.
09-28-18, 08:46 AM
#39
Part of me has this feeling in the back of my mind that it's more serious than CVs, bearings, or tires and has something to do with the transaxle.
I noticed yesterday that the vibration/shaking shows up at 25mph, then around 50-55mph, and then again after 65mph. This is all at a very light throttle input.
It wasn't apparent before, because I hardly ever cruised at those speeds, however now that I'm getting stuck in traffic more often, they are becoming more common.
I remember when I was trying everything to troubleshoot this issue back in 2016, I noticed the same speed pattern when I had my car on jack stands and ran the car from 0-70mph.
When I was doing that, I tried it in Drive and tried in 2nd gear - same results (low speed 20-25, mid speed 45-50, and high speed 65-75)
09-28-18, 12:26 PM
#40
This is slightly off topic, then comes back on-topic. Here's a recent example of the reason to discount mechanic's opinions on vibrations, suspension, and just a lot of general opinions from commercial mechanics:
Last week I had my SUV in for a vibration - it appeared the LF tire had thrown a weight, I had steering wheel wobble from 25 to 40 mph, suddenly, and no weights on that wheel (could not recall if it had them before, but that is suspicious). While they were checking the truck for issues and re-balancing the front tires, they failed to notice the LF say bar link was completely disconnected, literally flopping around. It was 8" or so right in front of the mechanic's face while doing the work and inspection. This was at THE most reputable tire/suspension/alignment shop in the area, and most expensive. This was the upper end of the link, literally right in front of your eyes if you look at the wheel hub. The re-balance fixed the issue; the sway bar end-link had nothing to do with it. But still...
I found it a few nights later when for some reason, I just had curiosity about if they had put weights on the inner rim as I did not see any on that wheel on the outside rim. I stuck my head underneath and saw in a second that the link was displaced. I had rebuilt the entire front suspension a year or two earlier, so nothing should have been wrong at all, and in fact the truck is smooth and supple and pleasant to drive. I must have under-torqued or it or neglected to torque it, or just worked it loose with some hard off road driving earlier this summer. I ran a die over the threads to clean them up; they were bad, (which may have been the root cause and not my error - who knows for sure though) and then re-attached it.
So when evaluating your case, I use my trained diagnostic skills to discount the opinions that come from 3rd parties and just focus on what you say and report (signs and symptoms), and past actions (treatments). This is a good example of my thesis that simply no one is going to be as thorough and objective about your car as you are. Side note - I am unclear why you would do the axles and not the bearings at the same time as it's 80% the same job, so you would be repeating a lot of effort. If you are doing them separately, it would be better to do the bearings first and see if that resolves your problem - then you could return the axles w/o penalty and save the added expense.
Anyway, I hope you find the solution, whatever it is!
Last week I had my SUV in for a vibration - it appeared the LF tire had thrown a weight, I had steering wheel wobble from 25 to 40 mph, suddenly, and no weights on that wheel (could not recall if it had them before, but that is suspicious). While they were checking the truck for issues and re-balancing the front tires, they failed to notice the LF say bar link was completely disconnected, literally flopping around. It was 8" or so right in front of the mechanic's face while doing the work and inspection. This was at THE most reputable tire/suspension/alignment shop in the area, and most expensive. This was the upper end of the link, literally right in front of your eyes if you look at the wheel hub. The re-balance fixed the issue; the sway bar end-link had nothing to do with it. But still...
I found it a few nights later when for some reason, I just had curiosity about if they had put weights on the inner rim as I did not see any on that wheel on the outside rim. I stuck my head underneath and saw in a second that the link was displaced. I had rebuilt the entire front suspension a year or two earlier, so nothing should have been wrong at all, and in fact the truck is smooth and supple and pleasant to drive. I must have under-torqued or it or neglected to torque it, or just worked it loose with some hard off road driving earlier this summer. I ran a die over the threads to clean them up; they were bad, (which may have been the root cause and not my error - who knows for sure though) and then re-attached it.
So when evaluating your case, I use my trained diagnostic skills to discount the opinions that come from 3rd parties and just focus on what you say and report (signs and symptoms), and past actions (treatments). This is a good example of my thesis that simply no one is going to be as thorough and objective about your car as you are. Side note - I am unclear why you would do the axles and not the bearings at the same time as it's 80% the same job, so you would be repeating a lot of effort. If you are doing them separately, it would be better to do the bearings first and see if that resolves your problem - then you could return the axles w/o penalty and save the added expense.
Anyway, I hope you find the solution, whatever it is!
09-29-18, 04:44 PM
#41
This is slightly off topic, then comes back on-topic. Here's a recent example of the reason to discount mechanic's opinions on vibrations, suspension, and just a lot of general opinions from commercial mechanics:
Last week I had my SUV in for a vibration - it appeared the LF tire had thrown a weight, I had steering wheel wobble from 25 to 40 mph, suddenly, and no weights on that wheel (could not recall if it had them before, but that is suspicious). While they were checking the truck for issues and re-balancing the front tires, they failed to notice the LF say bar link was completely disconnected, literally flopping around. It was 8" or so right in front of the mechanic's face while doing the work and inspection. This was at THE most reputable tire/suspension/alignment shop in the area, and most expensive. This was the upper end of the link, literally right in front of your eyes if you look at the wheel hub. The re-balance fixed the issue; the sway bar end-link had nothing to do with it. But still...
I found it a few nights later when for some reason, I just had curiosity about if they had put weights on the inner rim as I did not see any on that wheel on the outside rim. I stuck my head underneath and saw in a second that the link was displaced. I had rebuilt the entire front suspension a year or two earlier, so nothing should have been wrong at all, and in fact the truck is smooth and supple and pleasant to drive. I must have under-torqued or it or neglected to torque it, or just worked it loose with some hard off road driving earlier this summer. I ran a die over the threads to clean them up; they were bad, (which may have been the root cause and not my error - who knows for sure though) and then re-attached it.
So when evaluating your case, I use my trained diagnostic skills to discount the opinions that come from 3rd parties and just focus on what you say and report (signs and symptoms), and past actions (treatments). This is a good example of my thesis that simply no one is going to be as thorough and objective about your car as you are. Side note - I am unclear why you would do the axles and not the bearings at the same time as it's 80% the same job, so you would be repeating a lot of effort. If you are doing them separately, it would be better to do the bearings first and see if that resolves your problem - then you could return the axles w/o penalty and save the added expense.
Anyway, I hope you find the solution, whatever it is!
Last week I had my SUV in for a vibration - it appeared the LF tire had thrown a weight, I had steering wheel wobble from 25 to 40 mph, suddenly, and no weights on that wheel (could not recall if it had them before, but that is suspicious). While they were checking the truck for issues and re-balancing the front tires, they failed to notice the LF say bar link was completely disconnected, literally flopping around. It was 8" or so right in front of the mechanic's face while doing the work and inspection. This was at THE most reputable tire/suspension/alignment shop in the area, and most expensive. This was the upper end of the link, literally right in front of your eyes if you look at the wheel hub. The re-balance fixed the issue; the sway bar end-link had nothing to do with it. But still...
I found it a few nights later when for some reason, I just had curiosity about if they had put weights on the inner rim as I did not see any on that wheel on the outside rim. I stuck my head underneath and saw in a second that the link was displaced. I had rebuilt the entire front suspension a year or two earlier, so nothing should have been wrong at all, and in fact the truck is smooth and supple and pleasant to drive. I must have under-torqued or it or neglected to torque it, or just worked it loose with some hard off road driving earlier this summer. I ran a die over the threads to clean them up; they were bad, (which may have been the root cause and not my error - who knows for sure though) and then re-attached it.
So when evaluating your case, I use my trained diagnostic skills to discount the opinions that come from 3rd parties and just focus on what you say and report (signs and symptoms), and past actions (treatments). This is a good example of my thesis that simply no one is going to be as thorough and objective about your car as you are. Side note - I am unclear why you would do the axles and not the bearings at the same time as it's 80% the same job, so you would be repeating a lot of effort. If you are doing them separately, it would be better to do the bearings first and see if that resolves your problem - then you could return the axles w/o penalty and save the added expense.
Anyway, I hope you find the solution, whatever it is!
I’m 4 bolts away from removing the last front hub off my car to get the bearings replaced. Already snapped a 1/2” to 3/8” adapter and 3/8” ratchet trying to loosen two 17mm nuts on the passenger ball joint. Stopped by at a store to get the right tools.
While driving to the store I just had a thought...
My driver side bearing appears to be smooth when I spin it inside the hub without anything else attached. Not sure about the passenger side yet.
When I was replacing my rear brakes this summer, I noticed the passenger side REAR bearing/hub had some sort of a clicking sound to it. I never replaced it but now I’m thinking about it again.
1. I remembered that in early December of 2014, I hit a big pot hole while taking a slow left turn and my rear end quickly snapped into a fishtail motion. Reason I remember this is cuz I took it down for an alignment check afterwards and the mechanic found no issues.
2. The brake job this summer reminded me of that incident.
3. In the past month, a mechanic told me that my front left tire wasn’t spinning parallel to the car, observed by looking at the tread of the tire while free wheeling it. He moved it to the right rear and showed me the wobble but insisted that it’s the tire not the rear hub.
Is it possible the right rear hub isn’t spinning straight? Can a bad hub cause a vibration all the way up front through the steering wheel and floor of the car?
Check this thread for the sound of the rear bearing.
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/es-...l-bearing.html
10-01-18, 04:42 AM
#42
OP
a dial indicator on the very outer edge of the hub will tell you if there is any run out. I’d imagine less that 0.001” is acceptable as 0.002 is the max for a rotor. If this is a problem, easy fix. Rear bearings/hubs on these are simple
as a rule of thumb, your bottom feel a disturbance in the rear of the car, while your hands would notice an issue in the front
a dial indicator on the very outer edge of the hub will tell you if there is any run out. I’d imagine less that 0.001” is acceptable as 0.002 is the max for a rotor. If this is a problem, easy fix. Rear bearings/hubs on these are simple
as a rule of thumb, your bottom feel a disturbance in the rear of the car, while your hands would notice an issue in the front
10-02-18, 03:34 PM
#43
Update:
Replaced front bearings
Put the original driver CV axle back in
The new bearings spin a little more freely, however the vibration is identical to how it was.
It appears the bearings, nor the CV axles have any effect on the vibrations.
I can try ruling out the wheel balance by moving the front wheels to the back and also having them rebalanced again.
Considering the the amount of parts that have been exchanged on the front of this car, I don’t see what else is left besides the transmission.
While everything was apart, I double checked the strut mounts, lower control arm bushings, the tie rods ends(inner/outer), and the ball joints. No free play.
Multiple wheel and tire combinations have been tried in the past. So I am ruling out the possibility of a tire defect or a wheel issue.
Replaced front bearings
Put the original driver CV axle back in
The new bearings spin a little more freely, however the vibration is identical to how it was.
It appears the bearings, nor the CV axles have any effect on the vibrations.
I can try ruling out the wheel balance by moving the front wheels to the back and also having them rebalanced again.
Considering the the amount of parts that have been exchanged on the front of this car, I don’t see what else is left besides the transmission.
While everything was apart, I double checked the strut mounts, lower control arm bushings, the tie rods ends(inner/outer), and the ball joints. No free play.
Multiple wheel and tire combinations have been tried in the past. So I am ruling out the possibility of a tire defect or a wheel issue.
10-02-18, 06:00 PM
#44
Wow, so surprising. OK, back to basics, have you checked the repair history on the car/accident history?
Because this new info:
"3. In the past month, a mechanic told me that my front left tire wasn’t spinning parallel to the car, observed by looking at the tread of the tire while free wheeling it. He moved it to the right rear and showed me the wobble but insisted that it’s the tire not the rear hub.
Is it possible the right rear hub isn’t spinning straight? Can a bad hub cause a vibration all the way up front through the steering wheel and floor of the car?"
Changes things a bit and calls that into question. Or maybe it's from the pothole.
Because this new info:
"3. In the past month, a mechanic told me that my front left tire wasn’t spinning parallel to the car, observed by looking at the tread of the tire while free wheeling it. He moved it to the right rear and showed me the wobble but insisted that it’s the tire not the rear hub.
Is it possible the right rear hub isn’t spinning straight? Can a bad hub cause a vibration all the way up front through the steering wheel and floor of the car?"
Changes things a bit and calls that into question. Or maybe it's from the pothole.
10-03-18, 06:20 PM
#45
Wow, so surprising. OK, back to basics, have you checked the repair history on the car/accident history?
Because this new info:
"3. In the past month, a mechanic told me that my front left tire wasn’t spinning parallel to the car, observed by looking at the tread of the tire while free wheeling it. He moved it to the right rear and showed me the wobble but insisted that it’s the tire not the rear hub.
Is it possible the right rear hub isn’t spinning straight? Can a bad hub cause a vibration all the way up front through the steering wheel and floor of the car?"
Changes things a bit and calls that into question. Or maybe it's from the pothole.
Because this new info:
"3. In the past month, a mechanic told me that my front left tire wasn’t spinning parallel to the car, observed by looking at the tread of the tire while free wheeling it. He moved it to the right rear and showed me the wobble but insisted that it’s the tire not the rear hub.
Is it possible the right rear hub isn’t spinning straight? Can a bad hub cause a vibration all the way up front through the steering wheel and floor of the car?"
Changes things a bit and calls that into question. Or maybe it's from the pothole.
Car had an impact with a deer against the left front headlight. Fixed that when I got the car. It was all cosmetic.
Also just minor dents here and there.
I am going to stop “template matching” the symptoms and start measuring everything I can.
I would like to get a measurement of runout on all the brake discs and hubs.
Do another wheel balance measurement.
Measure the alignment.
What other factors can be measured? I’d like to run through a troubleshooting workflow in the service manual.
Do you think a Lexus Dealer would be able to further diagnose this issue or would they do the same template matching/throw parts at it, that I’ve been hearing for years?
Are there any chassis engineers/race teams that can look over my car on a dynamometer or something similar?