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6K job on the rusty suspension of my 2002 ES300, is it worth it
Today I took my 2002 ES300 to one mechanic shop in San Carlos, CA to do alignment check plus general vehicle inspection to make sure it is ready for a ~2000 mile road trip. The alignment was recommended by Costco tire department since they noticed uneven wear on my old tires when they installed new tires on my car. I was surprised that the guys recommended a long list of ~6K (7K with brake system) job to replace all the struts/shocks, suspension bushings, front axles, sway bar links, stabilizer bar control links, the whole rear brake system and even the exhaust system because all of them are 'very rusty'. They told me that before they replace the suspension system they cannot do alignment for the car. I understand that my car has been driving in Chicago and Boston for about 90K miles and winter is harsh there for cars. I also expected the rear brake system to be on the list since the two mechanics in Boston mentioned the same thing to me and I've already replaced the whole front brake system before I drove from Boston to SF. But neither Boston mechanics recommended replacing the whole suspension system. In addition, if my car (96K miles) is that bad, how many cars that have higher mileage and are driving in northern cities will have to replace their suspension? I wonder if anyone has similar experience, and if yes, what have you done to address the issue. To save money I think I can buy OEM/aftermarket parts online, while I don't know if they will be willing to use the parts I provide. I would appreciate it very much for any inputs you may have. I can provide pictures of the diagnosis as well as quotes for more detailed discussion. Thanks again.
Unlikely it needs that kind of work at only 97k miles. The only suspension work I've done to my 02' ES300 with 280,000 miles on it is struts all around. Just drove it 1200 miles on a roadtrip last weekend and it ran flawlessly!
Sounds to me like you are being scammed. I'm trying to think of items that would prevent an alignment: bad tie rod ends, bad control arm bushings, and bad ball joints. Replacing those wouldn't come near $7000. I usually just take my cars to Jensen Tire for alignments. I'd get a second opinion.
When you say replace the entire rear brake system, what do you mean? Brakes, rotors, parking bake, and calipers? $1000 seems like a lot for rear brakes, rotors and calipers.
I cannot imagine a 96k car, even in New England, needing that much suspension work unless it was severely abused as a taxi in urban central Boston traffic.
This pic is a 1991 Audi I have. It was in the Boston area, NYC and Vermont from 1991 to 2002, driven about 130k, and PARTICULARLY in snow storms and salted, bad road conditions. It got an occasional automated car wash to get salt off once in a while in the winter that’s all. I had a better pic of the suspension and brakes but appear to have deleted it. Your Lexus should have better rust protection on it than this car did when factory new, or at least the same level.
Components can have surface rust on them, and you use penetrant and heat to free them. Not rocket science. I could see possibly needing new shocks as the OE units on these cars were soft to start with, but that’s about it. I didn’t do any serious suspension refurb on our car until around 225k (bushings, etc.).
Thanks all for your kind input. I have attached a picture of the rusty struts of my car. Seems that it is indeed rustier than Oro's 91 Audi. Nevertheless, the car drives very smoothly and I do not hear any abnormal noise nor do I feel anything unusual. To make sure everything is right I just called my Boston mechanic this morning. They reassured me that the suspension on car at 96k should be ok even if it's from New England area as long as it does not make funny noise or give a rough ride. I think I will follow your advice and just do basic maintenance for my car at the moment
Sounds to me like you are being scammed. I'm trying to think of items that would prevent an alignment: bad tie rod ends, bad control arm bushings, and bad ball joints. Replacing those wouldn't come near $7000. I usually just take my cars to Jensen Tire for alignments. I'd get a second opinion.
When you say replace the entire rear brake system, what do you mean? Brakes, rotors, parking bake, and calipers? $1000 seems like a lot for rear brakes, rotors and calipers.
To Tomf, yes the rear brake system includes brakes, rotors, pads,and calipers. But even if that it is more expensive than what I paid for the front brake system in Boston, which was around 770. I will definitely look for another mechanic shop.
Yes, that’s some ugly rust but just on the surface of the cheaper steel stamping of the cartridge body. And the cheap pot metal stampings of the clips, etc. are bad looking, but functional.
Just monitor the suspension and replace it when you feel it needs new shocks. The fact the boots (the rubber belows disappearing upwards inside the spring) is torn and exposed means more debris, etc. can get on the piston and accelerate wear, but there’s not a lot pracitcal to do to it (duct tape?). I put new belows on our car about 4 years/50k miles ago and they are already torn in places, given very mild climate and easy highway miles. They just aren’t made well and don’t last long.
What you can do to be proactive is refresh the brake fluid every year or two. The salt can make water intrusion more likely, as well as water-absorption by the hygroscopic fluid itself (from the high humidity in wetter climates). Brake fluid ignored a long time in climate like that can lead to piston seizures and real problems. At around 100k, you have to think about timing belt change and plug changes, so it could be dealt with then if you aren’t into doing it yourself.
Hi Oro, your suggestions are very professional. I will monitor the brake fluid more often and have mechanics check them regularly. I did have replaced the timing belt last May following my Boston mechanic's recommendation, since the car was 15 years old at that time and the belt ages even without heavy use. I have replaced the spark plugs too 10k miles ago and they should last for a while. People also recommend me to pay attention to the starter and alternator, which die after long term use. I will watch out. Again, thank you for your kind input and enjoy the NBA finals (if you like basketball at all)
Sounds like the shop has never worked on Northeastern vehicles and got intimidated by the job. Take it elsewhere. The surface rust looks pretty bad, but there is no structural damage. Do you have any other pictures? I wonder what they found.
They said it is rusty and they have safety concerns. But other than being rusty they did not say that much. Below are more pictures of the rusty rear brakes and front axles/CV boots, and they are indeed very rusty. Anyway, today I took my car to a different mechanic who seems to be more familiar with Northeastern cars. He told me that my car is more rusty than average Northeastern cars, but he did not find apparent leakage and it should drive fine. He just recommended replacing the rear brake pads/rotors/calipers, which I will do. I drove pretty mildly in Boston (around 1K miles / year) and I have no idea how the rust can be that bad. Hope other cars will never get this ugly rust as my car did.
I might speculate you drove in winter and then it went into a heated (or at least warm/attached to a house) garage? That can really accelerate that as then you take the car coated with salt into an above-freezing environment where the salt can work much more actively. That Audi (sorry I deleted the brake caliper pics, it would be very comparable and illustrative) went into an unheated commercial garage in NYC after use, and then when it got above freezing, I would run it through a car wash on 6th ave so it didn’t sit above freezing with salt coating the underside. It was $3 once in a while but it was effective anti-rust protection. Someone on an Audi or other car forum had clued me into that practice.
I would be inclined to in fact replace those rear calipers; it’s not very expensive. I can see from the pic the pads need replacing soon as the piston is worked a bit out of the bore. Last month I did the fronts on our car and I got a great deal on parts on RockAuto. Raybestos coated rotors (silver anti-rust bonded coating; I can’t recall their trade name for it right now) and Service Grade (“SG”) Ceramic pads. Very inexpensive for good quality parts. Ceramic pads of some time are just a must for wear and low-mess and corrosive dust. If that mechanic will allow, buy those and some calipers and give to him.
From the pics, nothing else really appears amiss. It appears the CV has recent boots and other things look solid if just a bit “New England-y” .
our alternator and power steering pump lasted until about 250k. The belly pan buys a lot of protection for those components. Our starter is a-ok at 300k miles now. Another service thing to keep in mind is to never mix different coolant types. The car came with Toyota long-life “Red” and should never be mixed with old-type green, AMAM yellow, DexCool orange, etc. Nasty chemistry happens that later down the road eats plastics in the radiator or heater box or valve. It is easily available widely aftermarket as “Zerex Asian Red” or PentoFrost A1 in addition to the factory supply.
PS - another thought that comes to mind is if your car recently relocated from NE to CA, and your headlights are still relatively clear, start using a good UV protectant on them to keep them from yellowing. besides looking bad, it really reduces the headlight effectiveness. The plastic compound in these headlights is pretty horrible at UV resistance. Wax them or a lot of people report great results with “Aerospace 303.” It is a few extra dollars but is said to be very worth it. No personal experience but if I were in sunny climes, I’d be all over it.
Hi Oro, it is just the opposite scenario. Since I lived close to where I were working in Boston, I just parked my car during the weekdays (on street) and only drove for grocery shopping on weekends. In winter days, especially like the harsh winter days in 2015 (110 inches of snow), I could park my car for 3-4 months on street without driving. This is because digging out the car from the snow is really time-consuming and painful. So I guess the salty snow could stick to the brake pads and other components of the suspension system and stay like that for months. This would really eat away the metal surface. If I had driven more in winter, the car could have been in better condition since motion could help get rid of the salty snow from my car... Thanks again for your suggestions on the rear breaks. I will check with the mechanic to see if I can bring in my own parts, which will save me several hundred bucks.
A follow-up for my 02 ES300. I took my car to another mechanic for an estimate of the rear brake job, including pads, rotors and calipers. They quoted me 850. Then I asked if I could bring in my own parts, they looked at me and then said, 'we won't fix your car, find another mechanic'. Humm... I guess I just upset them (yeah I know parts are part of their profit). I started missing the more friendly mechanics in Boston.
I know what you mean about the parts. When i was younger and less experienced, I tried asking the same thing and seriously offended the shop. I learned to never bargain about parts prices as that’s their profit. Instead haggle on the total cost, if you have to.
For example, I’m doing my rear brakes now. Pads, Rotors, and refurbished calipers. All in, it’s about $150-200.
06-02-18, 12:09 AM
6K job on the rusty suspension of my 2002 ES300, is it worth it
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