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Hey everybody! Hope you are having a great week. I am, but my car is not. I own a 1998 ES300 with 220k miles on it. It has been very well maintained over the years. Just last week as I was leaving work, I shifted into drive and the car would not move. Same problem when I shifted into reverse. When I looked under the car, ATF was everywhere. Once I got it back home, I poured another quart in to see if I could replicate the leak. Important to note that with the fresh quart of ATF, the car did move while in drive or reverse. But after about 1 min I noticed that the car was rapidly leaking ATF. At about the pace of the average kitchen sink on a medium flow. When I looked to see where it was coming from, I noticed it coming out of a hole in the transfer case. Picture of the hole is below. I am not sure what this hole is called but I think it is some sort of vent hole.
Hole:
So I have two questions--the second one is the most important. 1) Out of pure curiosity and a need to know everything, what is the name and function of the hole in the picture? 2) What could cause ATF to leak so fast and so suddenly from this hole?
Any help is greatly appreciated and I would like to thank everyone in advance. This site is absolutely awesome and has helped me with so many DIY jobs I cannot even count them.
Raise the front of the car (safely) spray down the area with brake cleaner. Start the car and watch hopefully you'll discover the general area where it leaks. That "hole" is put into the casting to allow drainage otherwise leaking fluids would accumulate in the bell housing.
I have tried looking with the car safely jacked up. It is almost impossible to tell where the fluid is coming from though. It from somewhere inside of the housing. Is there an inspection hole somewhere else on the housing that will allow me to get a better look? I am at work now but will try again this evening. Thanks for your help.
I woul think if its truly coming from inside the bell housing, the transmission pump seal has gone bad. Its located on the front where the shaft goes in from the torque converter. Either that or your converter has split. Its not common but can happen.
the only way to successfully fix this problem would be to remove the trans from the car completely.
Ok. I figured this would require a tranny removal. Something that I am capable of doing but do not have the time at this point in my life. I will probably take it to a reputable tranny shop. If I end of having the tranny removed for the work, is there any other maintenance that I should have done while the tranny is off that might save me a big PITA later on? I would hate to have a seal replaced and then have something else go bad in a year. Is it worth considering an entirely new tranny or a complete tranny rebuild? I imagine majority of the cost for this job would be from the hours it takes to remove the tranny and replace it, not from parts. Thanks again everybody for the help.
You should check the transmission mounts, aswell as rack-n-pinion for any leaks/hose replacements. The drive axles will have to come out, so that means removing the brake calipers/pads/rotors, maybe even the 2 strut bolts and tie-rods. You should check the balljoints.
While you have all that removed, you could probably also just clean the engine bay.
Transmission mounts and ball joints I will probably have done for sure. I already have those parts in fact. Was planning on doing them myself here soon until this tranny problem started. Pads and rotors are less than 3 months old right now so those are good. Calipers seemed fine too when I changed the pads. I replaced the struts and tie rods 4 years ago but those might be starting to wear again. I don't know if it is worth the money though to change the struts again right now. Tie rods are worth the money though. Why should I check the strut bolts? Do the bolts themselves wear? Rack and pinion will be expensive--would you guys replace this too? I have not noticed any problems with my steering at the moment but I am a proponent for preventative maintenance.
Why should I check the strut bolts? Do the bolts themselves wear? Rack and pinion will be expensive--would you guys replace this too?
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I mentioned the two bolts because you'll have to remove them to remove the cv axle . Nothings wrong with them, was just mentioning the step. Same with the rack and pinion, just visual checks.
Did you check carefully the ATF coolant lines, that’s the only cause that I can think of for such a massive and sudden ATF leak.
Right; and those would/do pump at about the rate of a kitchen sink on medium. I don't know where the fittings are on the housings on these; I've only ever removed them at the radiator. I would think they would be on the radiator side, around mid-height or higher on the main body, at the forward end just aft of the bell housing (like on a lot of other transmissions).
If those are intact, then it's likely something like ArmyofOne said - a big fail at the pump shaft seal or torque converter itself. Both of those would spew into the bell housing.
I will double check the ATF coolant lines. I gave them a quick look and they seemed fine but I did not look closely. I was almost certain it was coming from the bell housing hole but it may have just appeared that way if it was dripping down the side. Like you said PFB, I was amazed at the sudden rate of the leak and thought that it was the coolant lines at first too until I got under the car and it appeared to be coming from the hole in the bell housing. I will definitely double check. That would be a relief if it turned out to be the ATF coolant lines.
I just did axels on our Odyssey a couple months ago and did not remove anything but the balljoint... just pushed the strut assembly over. 2 days ago my wife pointed out there is a light clunk in the front, i shook down EVERYTHING and other than the strut/mount or sway bar bushings (none of which I cant "test") all seemed fine. Wonder if I damaged the strut mount when moving it over? didnt push hard.
The reason I say this is because I was going to point out that removal of the strut bolts and brakes isnt necessary, but then realized I may have shot my self in the foot.
As for tranny removal, some cars you can drop the driver side of the sub-frame but only loosen the passenger side, allowing the tranny to slip out... must easier. the engine hangs on an angle (or can be secured up but then you deal with exhaust) so make sure to disconnect the steering shaft from the rack and any lines or wires that are tight to the body
Just think on it before you spend big bucks at a tranny shop
OK, so in a last ditch attempt to make sure that the ATF was coming from the bell housing, I filled the car up with ATF and plugged the bell housing drain hole with some plumber's putty. I then started the car and watched to see where the leaks came from. The ATF started leaking from somewhere above the bell housing it appeared. Then when I took the putty off, it started to pour out of the bell housing as well--rapidly as if it was building up in there. Is there anywhere on top of the bell housing that the ATF could be entering from the outside? If so, I am assuming that my leak is coming from somewhere above the housing and not in it. Thanks in advance.
If you fill the transmission up and then start it, what SHOULD happen is ATF blow out the vent at the top of the bell housing and run down.
So, I think you just showed that it was overfull. To fill the AT, you need to start it, let it run, shift through all gears, and then adjust the fill level to the relevant cold/hot mark with the car running. I suggest doing this cold as it gives more accurate readings IME.
02-27-18, 12:46 AM
Massive ATF Leak
