What should I replace at 180k - 2005 ES330
02-21-18, 05:40 AM
#1
Pit Crew
Thread Starter
What should I replace at 180k - 2005 ES330
I own a 2005 ES330, and bought it when it had 129k miles on it. It is now at 169k miles.
It was serviced as per the book when I bought it. After that, I was regularly replacing engine oil, breaks, filters and tires.
The dog bone and one spark plug were replaced at 160k, .
Timing belt was replaced at 90k miles.
Power steering oil replaced, engine oil replaced, transmission fluid replaced at 169k miles.
All in all, the car runs great, and I have had almost no issues with it (there is a small oil leakage which I cannot locate and brings burned smell in the cabin, but it is so small that I cannot notice where it is coming from).
As I am approaching 180k miles, I was thinking this would be a good time to do more stuff at the time as I'd like to replace the timing belt again.
What would you suggest I should replace together with timing belt?
What about shocks/struts, should I replace them too? In case I do so, is it best to do it together with disks and breaks replacement? Is there something else that needs to be replaced on the wheel?
Thanks for all the tips and suggestions!!!
It was serviced as per the book when I bought it. After that, I was regularly replacing engine oil, breaks, filters and tires.
The dog bone and one spark plug were replaced at 160k, .
Timing belt was replaced at 90k miles.
Power steering oil replaced, engine oil replaced, transmission fluid replaced at 169k miles.
All in all, the car runs great, and I have had almost no issues with it (there is a small oil leakage which I cannot locate and brings burned smell in the cabin, but it is so small that I cannot notice where it is coming from).
As I am approaching 180k miles, I was thinking this would be a good time to do more stuff at the time as I'd like to replace the timing belt again.
What would you suggest I should replace together with timing belt?
What about shocks/struts, should I replace them too? In case I do so, is it best to do it together with disks and breaks replacement? Is there something else that needs to be replaced on the wheel?
Thanks for all the tips and suggestions!!!
02-21-18, 12:03 PM
#2
This is a good question. I've maintained an 02 (same car) from 140k to just shy of 290k now. The car runs exceptionally well IMO and I've had replace a few things along the way. The biggest chunk was from c. 200k to 250k when a lot of systems wear out. At 180k, you could start to evaluate those if you plan on long-term ownership. There is a big difference in wear rate based on roads, climate, and other usage factors, so when things come due on one vehicle can be radically different than another.
Working from the ground up, thinking of things I've had to address, I would:
Evaluate the bearings and suspension components. This can be done by jacking the car, rocking the wheels on two axes, and feeling springs while the front wheel spins. Front wheel bearings are a slightly more difficult job on these than some types, and you need to start watching for them. Check for worn suspension and steering components, ball joints, end links, tie rod ends, etc.
Your springs are likely wearing out in the rear; once the car starts sagging a little in the rear or it feels "loose" when cornering, consider that. The stock replacement units are nose-bleed expensive and people have tried a lot of aftermarket solutions. With greatly varying success. I had great success with replicating stock ride affordably by installing KYB shock cartridges and combining with the stock upper mounts. In the front I used the OE springs, in the rear Moog cc273 from the Camry/Avalon (there is no ES300 spec fitment, but these are the same size, though a slightly stiffer spring rate - which is a good thing IMO). Total for all four corners to be like new for me was about $480 IIRC (doing my own labor). Koreywill on the forum did the exact same and I think he's very happy with the results, too. Aftermarket "quick struts" are problematic on these, and most all aftermarket upper mounts have a relatively high failure rate. If you do go aftermarket complete strut, disassemble the stock units and keep the upper mounts as insurance against mount failure down the round.
If not done at the last service, pull the brake caliper pins, clean, and re-grease them. They can stick and cause binding issues. I learned last week from the list this is common on these cars, though I have not had it happen on this vehicle, but have on others. With the wheels off to check the brakes, pull the inner fender liner and look at the engine mounts. Remove the upper nut and with the engine lifted slightly, grab the stud coming out of the mount and twist it/test it to make sure they are solid. These wear out along with the upper dogbone mount. Mainly the two side ones behind each wheel; the front one is generally reliable (thankfully, It's more complicated to deal with).
The burning smell is likely the valve cover gaskets weeping. They seem to wear out consistently on these cars about 150k. Since that's 20k over the spark plug service where it's easy to do them, my plan now is to do them at each spark plug service. However, it your plugs were done at 120k by the book, I would not wait until their next change to re-do the gaskets as the leaking, besides the smell, can damage the PS pump - the oil leaks down and collects on it, damaging seals and hoses. Changing PS pumps on these is not fun or easy because of clearance issues.
Be sure when the timing belt is done to change the tensioner and water pump. There isn't really anything else that can logically "go with" the T-belt service as most other things around there are easily accessible on their own or not needing service. Changing the PCV valve is moderately easier with the timing covers off.
If it has never been done, an intake service is good. Clean out the air box, clean the MAF sensor, clean the IACV. Change the PCV valve if not done. Go through the engine compartment and trace the vacuum lines - some should start drying and cracking at this point. The large breather tube to the front valve cover heats and cracks; check that and be careful with it. If you live in a rust belt area, remove and clean the fuse box and alternator gounds
Since you have serviced the AT and PS, set a schedule and refresh the fluid every 25k or so. Drain/fill the AT pan and the PS reservoir at the same time on this schedule.
I had to replace oil control valves around 250k. Others do so much earlier. I would be careful about doing some oil system maintenance. Run a flush now (next oil change) if it's never had one, run a high quality synthetic with the narrowest viscosity range you can to avoid non-oil additives in the oil (e.g., unless you live in very cold areas, run 10w-30 and not 5w-30, which has less "oil" in it). Consider an additive like Lubegard Biotech in the engine oil. Changing oil control valves is not really hard and they are not hugely expensive, but the aftermarket ones are a crapshoot, and it can be hard to diagnose the problem and the car may not be driveable. The units can bench-test find but then fail under pressure in the system (which you cannot test). A few extra minutes and dollars at each oil change can help head this (and many other) problems off). I flush with a quart of kerosene every other oil change (15k, when I change the filter). Each oil change (7.5k) I use Mobil 1 10w-30 High Mileage and 10ozs of Lubegard Biotech.I run a Fram ultra (XG3614 for this car) 2x oil change intervals. The engine is now smoother and uses no more oil (almost none) than it did 100k ago. I also run a PEA (Gumout Regane/Chevron Techron) treatment each oil change to fight deposits and I think that helps a lot, too.
Topside, something that can save you hassle later is to get some Sil-Glyde and smear it on rubber hoses and gaskets like doors, windows, trunk, engine hoses, etc. It is a silicone grease that can dramatically improve their condition and longevity. The stuff is useful for brake work, too, because it is high-temp besides rubber-friendly. I have had to replace the driver's door window gasket once and now need to re-align the window a few years later. these have tight tolerances and as the rubber ages, friction increases wear on the gasket, motors, mounts, etc. Keeping it lubed can save an annoying repair later.
Probably a lot of things I've overlooked but those are major things in the next 100k you'd face that you can get ahead of the curve by addressing.
Working from the ground up, thinking of things I've had to address, I would:
Evaluate the bearings and suspension components. This can be done by jacking the car, rocking the wheels on two axes, and feeling springs while the front wheel spins. Front wheel bearings are a slightly more difficult job on these than some types, and you need to start watching for them. Check for worn suspension and steering components, ball joints, end links, tie rod ends, etc.
Your springs are likely wearing out in the rear; once the car starts sagging a little in the rear or it feels "loose" when cornering, consider that. The stock replacement units are nose-bleed expensive and people have tried a lot of aftermarket solutions. With greatly varying success. I had great success with replicating stock ride affordably by installing KYB shock cartridges and combining with the stock upper mounts. In the front I used the OE springs, in the rear Moog cc273 from the Camry/Avalon (there is no ES300 spec fitment, but these are the same size, though a slightly stiffer spring rate - which is a good thing IMO). Total for all four corners to be like new for me was about $480 IIRC (doing my own labor). Koreywill on the forum did the exact same and I think he's very happy with the results, too. Aftermarket "quick struts" are problematic on these, and most all aftermarket upper mounts have a relatively high failure rate. If you do go aftermarket complete strut, disassemble the stock units and keep the upper mounts as insurance against mount failure down the round.
If not done at the last service, pull the brake caliper pins, clean, and re-grease them. They can stick and cause binding issues. I learned last week from the list this is common on these cars, though I have not had it happen on this vehicle, but have on others. With the wheels off to check the brakes, pull the inner fender liner and look at the engine mounts. Remove the upper nut and with the engine lifted slightly, grab the stud coming out of the mount and twist it/test it to make sure they are solid. These wear out along with the upper dogbone mount. Mainly the two side ones behind each wheel; the front one is generally reliable (thankfully, It's more complicated to deal with).
The burning smell is likely the valve cover gaskets weeping. They seem to wear out consistently on these cars about 150k. Since that's 20k over the spark plug service where it's easy to do them, my plan now is to do them at each spark plug service. However, it your plugs were done at 120k by the book, I would not wait until their next change to re-do the gaskets as the leaking, besides the smell, can damage the PS pump - the oil leaks down and collects on it, damaging seals and hoses. Changing PS pumps on these is not fun or easy because of clearance issues.
Be sure when the timing belt is done to change the tensioner and water pump. There isn't really anything else that can logically "go with" the T-belt service as most other things around there are easily accessible on their own or not needing service. Changing the PCV valve is moderately easier with the timing covers off.
If it has never been done, an intake service is good. Clean out the air box, clean the MAF sensor, clean the IACV. Change the PCV valve if not done. Go through the engine compartment and trace the vacuum lines - some should start drying and cracking at this point. The large breather tube to the front valve cover heats and cracks; check that and be careful with it. If you live in a rust belt area, remove and clean the fuse box and alternator gounds
Since you have serviced the AT and PS, set a schedule and refresh the fluid every 25k or so. Drain/fill the AT pan and the PS reservoir at the same time on this schedule.
I had to replace oil control valves around 250k. Others do so much earlier. I would be careful about doing some oil system maintenance. Run a flush now (next oil change) if it's never had one, run a high quality synthetic with the narrowest viscosity range you can to avoid non-oil additives in the oil (e.g., unless you live in very cold areas, run 10w-30 and not 5w-30, which has less "oil" in it). Consider an additive like Lubegard Biotech in the engine oil. Changing oil control valves is not really hard and they are not hugely expensive, but the aftermarket ones are a crapshoot, and it can be hard to diagnose the problem and the car may not be driveable. The units can bench-test find but then fail under pressure in the system (which you cannot test). A few extra minutes and dollars at each oil change can help head this (and many other) problems off). I flush with a quart of kerosene every other oil change (15k, when I change the filter). Each oil change (7.5k) I use Mobil 1 10w-30 High Mileage and 10ozs of Lubegard Biotech.I run a Fram ultra (XG3614 for this car) 2x oil change intervals. The engine is now smoother and uses no more oil (almost none) than it did 100k ago. I also run a PEA (Gumout Regane/Chevron Techron) treatment each oil change to fight deposits and I think that helps a lot, too.
Topside, something that can save you hassle later is to get some Sil-Glyde and smear it on rubber hoses and gaskets like doors, windows, trunk, engine hoses, etc. It is a silicone grease that can dramatically improve their condition and longevity. The stuff is useful for brake work, too, because it is high-temp besides rubber-friendly. I have had to replace the driver's door window gasket once and now need to re-align the window a few years later. these have tight tolerances and as the rubber ages, friction increases wear on the gasket, motors, mounts, etc. Keeping it lubed can save an annoying repair later.
Probably a lot of things I've overlooked but those are major things in the next 100k you'd face that you can get ahead of the curve by addressing.
Last edited by Oro; 02-21-18 at 12:09 PM.
02-21-18, 12:35 PM
#3
Pit Crew
Thread Starter
Wow, thank you so much. I'll need to go through this few more times to fully absorb it.
There are things on the list which I won't be able to do on my own, but I could certainly go to mechanic with the list. I truly appreciate your effort here.
There are things on the list which I won't be able to do on my own, but I could certainly go to mechanic with the list. I truly appreciate your effort here.
Last edited by mirekti; 02-21-18 at 01:00 PM.
02-21-18, 05:45 PM
#4
Thank you Oro.
I have 133,000 on mine and I noticed that the struts are starting to tire. According to what I have seen on struts, they are at stage 1 or 2 wear. In the morning, there is a slight slapping noise. When they warm up, the strut movement is more normal.
To clarify, did you replace springs and mounts on all four wheels? Or did you replace rear springs and reuse the mounts and replace the front mounts and keep the springs?
On the transmission service, my fluid is red, but I don't honestly know when the last time it was changed. Do you recommend replacing the filter or am I wasting money? Can I just change it at 25k intervals instead?
I have 133,000 on mine and I noticed that the struts are starting to tire. According to what I have seen on struts, they are at stage 1 or 2 wear. In the morning, there is a slight slapping noise. When they warm up, the strut movement is more normal.
To clarify, did you replace springs and mounts on all four wheels? Or did you replace rear springs and reuse the mounts and replace the front mounts and keep the springs?
On the transmission service, my fluid is red, but I don't honestly know when the last time it was changed. Do you recommend replacing the filter or am I wasting money? Can I just change it at 25k intervals instead?
02-22-18, 03:33 PM
#5
Thank you Oro.
I have 133,000 on mine and I noticed that the struts are starting to tire. According to what I have seen on struts, they are at stage 1 or 2 wear. In the morning, there is a slight slapping noise. When they warm up, the strut movement is more normal.
To clarify, did you replace springs and mounts on all four wheels? Or did you replace rear springs and reuse the mounts and replace the front mounts and keep the springs?
On the transmission service, my fluid is red, but I don't honestly know when the last time it was changed. Do you recommend replacing the filter or am I wasting money? Can I just change it at 25k intervals instead?
I have 133,000 on mine and I noticed that the struts are starting to tire. According to what I have seen on struts, they are at stage 1 or 2 wear. In the morning, there is a slight slapping noise. When they warm up, the strut movement is more normal.
To clarify, did you replace springs and mounts on all four wheels? Or did you replace rear springs and reuse the mounts and replace the front mounts and keep the springs?
On the transmission service, my fluid is red, but I don't honestly know when the last time it was changed. Do you recommend replacing the filter or am I wasting money? Can I just change it at 25k intervals instead?
I would not open the pan. Some of these filters are wire mesh and not even paper, so not actually replaceable necessarily. That is also why atf changes are important, as the fluid is not really filtered. This varies by year but some ES and Camry’s in this range are metal mesh filters. If your fluid looks good, I would be tempted to just drain/fill the transmission now (ps reservoir, too), and then every 25k mi. I like the shifting with the Castrol Transmax High Mileage atf. It is recommended for TIV apllications and works well IME. I was in a Walmart this am getting oil for my suv and saw it on clearance, $13 gallon. I think smaller footprint stores are reducing oil inventory (this was a smaller store), so ot may not be on sale at all WMs.
The following users liked this post:
ES300TX (02-27-18)
02-27-18, 02:47 PM
#6
I, and Koreywill, replaced only the rear springs but all four strut cartridges. The front springs are stiffer, cycle less, and just don’t wear as fast. Mine are fine at near 300k. You may also need dust boots and insulators (just rubber pads). The “mounts” are sealed cage bearings on the upper end of the assembly. I re-used them because all were ok and because of the high aftermarket failure rate - even with KYB kits. Again, if you take another route, save the mounts just in case.
I would not open the pan. Some of these filters are wire mesh and not even paper, so not actually replaceable necessarily. That is also why atf changes are important, as the fluid is not really filtered. This varies by year but some ES and Camry’s in this range are metal mesh filters. If your fluid looks good, I would be tempted to just drain/fill the transmission now (ps reservoir, too), and then every 25k mi. I like the shifting with the Castrol Transmax High Mileage atf. It is recommended for TIV apllications and works well IME. I was in a Walmart this am getting oil for my suv and saw it on clearance, $13 gallon. I think smaller footprint stores are reducing oil inventory (this was a smaller store), so ot may not be on sale at all WMs.
On the suspension subject, have you changed the sway bar yet? I would like to change the front and rear sway bars as the cars cornering isn't too great. A lot of body lean and the front end washes out. I hope the new shocks work. I only have 134,000 on mine, but the bounciness is starting to show a little. It could be worse, but... I hope to find stuff on sale.
02-27-18, 04:41 PM
#7
I guess the Transmax will mix with Toyota fluid? If so, that's great.
On the suspension subject, have you changed the sway bar yet? I would like to change the front and rear sway bars as the cars cornering isn't too great. A lot of body lean and the front end washes out. I hope the new shocks work. I only have 134,000 on mine, but the bounciness is starting to show a little. It could be worse, but... I hope to find stuff on sale.
On the suspension subject, have you changed the sway bar yet? I would like to change the front and rear sway bars as the cars cornering isn't too great. A lot of body lean and the front end washes out. I hope the new shocks work. I only have 134,000 on mine, but the bounciness is starting to show a little. It could be worse, but... I hope to find stuff on sale.
The rear springs in these are known to be pretty soft and by 134k should be showing it some. When they get really soft, the rear will feel REALLY floaty and disconcerting. I've found one really decent option, which is to replace the rear springs with Moog cc273 springs. They are not overly stiff, they are the recommended unit for the same body Camry and Avalon. I put them in and so did Koreywill. We both like them (or from what I recall he said last time he mentioned the subject). They may address the issues for you. I bet it's more likely that vs. sway bar issues and I would address shocks and rear springs first and see how it feels before spending on sway bars. I don't think they will contribute much on their own.
The following users liked this post:
ES300TX (03-04-18)
Trending Topics
03-04-18, 09:26 AM
#8
Pit Crew
Thread Starter
Also, as the pressure hose requires quite of labor I will replace the time belt and water pump 10k miles earlier than planned, but kind of save on labor costs.
I will buy OEM parts as I am not sure of quality of the after market ones.
Are there any other brands which are not OEM, but are used by Toyota as a manufacturer so I could save a bit on the parts?
The idea was to buy it from Ebay. This should be a safe, correct? I mean, when the seller says OEM I should get OEM.
This is on my list as of now:
Power steering pump:
44411-33110 - Power steering high pressure hose - $325
4441606100 - Power Steering Return Hose-Lower - $85
4440606100 - Power Steering Return Hose-Upper - $85
4434806180 - Power Steering-Reservoir Tank Hose - $78
Any other hose, gasket I'd need to buy before I schedule it with the mechanic?
OEM Timing belt and Water pump - $175
Thank you!!!
Last edited by mirekti; 03-04-18 at 09:51 AM.
03-04-18, 09:44 AM
#9
Lead Lap
It seems the smell is coming from broken power steering pressure hose so this will be replaced soon. Apart from that I was thinking of ordering lower and upper return hoses so everything is replaced at the same time.
Also, as the pressure hose requires quite of labor I will replace the time belt and water pump 10k miles earlier than planned, but kind of save on labor costs.
I will buy OEM parts as I am not sure of quality of the after market ones. The idea was to buy it from Ebay. This should be a safe, correct? I mean, when the seller says OEM I should get OEM.
This is on my list as of now:
Power steering pump:
44411-33110 - Power steering high pressure hose - $325
4441606100 - Power Steering Return Hose-Lower - $85
4440606100 - Power Steering Return Hose-Upper - $85
4434806180 - Power Steering-Reservoir Tank Hose - $78
Any other hose, gasket I'd need to buy before I schedule it with the mechanic?
OEM Timing belt and Water pump - $175
Thank you!!!
Also, as the pressure hose requires quite of labor I will replace the time belt and water pump 10k miles earlier than planned, but kind of save on labor costs.
I will buy OEM parts as I am not sure of quality of the after market ones. The idea was to buy it from Ebay. This should be a safe, correct? I mean, when the seller says OEM I should get OEM.
This is on my list as of now:
Power steering pump:
44411-33110 - Power steering high pressure hose - $325
4441606100 - Power Steering Return Hose-Lower - $85
4440606100 - Power Steering Return Hose-Upper - $85
4434806180 - Power Steering-Reservoir Tank Hose - $78
Any other hose, gasket I'd need to buy before I schedule it with the mechanic?
OEM Timing belt and Water pump - $175
Thank you!!!
03-04-18, 10:22 AM
#10
Those prices for hoses look pretty high. I would bet that they are likely OEM. I would look up discount lexus parts on google and find a quasi reputable dealer. I tend to like that better than Ebay or rock auto in some situations.
The following users liked this post:
mirekti (03-04-18)
03-04-18, 10:25 AM
#11
Drained and refilled transmission fluid yesterday. I was going to try the Transmax fluid, but I replaced it with some leftover Toyota T-IV fluid that I had left over. Car shifts a bit better. Smoother upshifts now. I am very pleased. Need to keep on this. Change every 30k. It's cheap insurance.
03-04-18, 10:34 AM
#12
Pit Crew
Thread Starter
Drained and refilled transmission fluid yesterday. I was going to try the Transmax fluid, but I replaced it with some leftover Toyota T-IV fluid that I had left over. Car shifts a bit better. Smoother upshifts now. I am very pleased. Need to keep on this. Change every 30k. It's cheap insurance.
Not sure if the transmission had to run on new oil for some time or it was Lubeguard which made my tranny even smoother.
03-04-18, 01:33 PM
#13
Intermediate
CarID has reputable parts. It depends on what brand parts you get for aftermarket.
Or if you know reputable shop, shops get lower prices (below list price) then the general public when they order parts.
Or if you know reputable shop, shops get lower prices (below list price) then the general public when they order parts.
The following users liked this post:
mirekti (03-04-18)
03-04-18, 11:48 PM
#14
Completely agree with you, BUT I am not sure if the Lubegard Platinum is right for our transmissions; I think that is for Honda and "Red" is what is for DexIII/T-IV and later formulations. There are real friction modifier differences between the two designs. I will check the website later to verify what is what.
BUT: I like the Lubegard products. There is real chemistry there, not snake oil. I added 9ozs of Red to my AT (1 oz. into the PS system from the 10 oz bottle). A niggling low idle and subsequent vibration I could not get rid of in 100k miles disappeared in days. I mean, I had been through everything in the engine and transmission over two years - mounts, fluid flushes, sensor cleaning, yada, yada, yada. The car has (just shy of) 288k on it today and it is smooth as new. Absolutely remarkable.
Having rebuilt transmissions and a basic grasp of the chemistry involved, I have theory as to how it worked. In short, you could get the same result running Redline at $15/quart, or use this additive at each drain/fill or flush.
03-05-18, 01:28 AM
#15
Oro, I have been fighting a similar vibration issue doing all the same stuff as you without success. My 99 Avalon specs DexIII. I replaced it with DexVI years ago since III is no longer available. I was happy with performance. A couple winters ago I got stuck in a snow bank and worked the trans hard going back/forth. Since then trans doesn’t seem quite right (although someone driving my car for first time would not notice it). Now I have a vibration in gear when not moving. Have replaced all mounts with OEM, cleaned MAF, TB and IACV and even adjusted idle to high side of spec. I was thinking about going to Castrol import multivehicle since so many rave about its performance but now wonder if I should try Lubeguard first. What do you think? Thanks.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
SNiiP3R
GS - 4th Gen (2013-2020)
9
11-04-15 01:05 PM