GSteg

iTrader: (15)

The clunk goes along with the gear hunting and hesitation. It's not just one 'issue'. I got the clunk, gear hunting and throttle lag all in one car (yippy!). It's a software issue and not mechanical which is why Toyota hasn't done anything. As long as the transmission doesn't disintegrate itself, it's mechanically sound to them. I would say it occurred 30% of the time I drove it.

RXGS

iTrader: (2)

I've found the transmission to be less smooth than that in my 2001 ES300, but I rarely if ever experience lag to the degree to where other people notice it. That being said, a huge difference was made after i did several drain and fills for the transmission fluid.

bostonjoe

Whatever happened to the Great American idea of UDERSTATED ELEGANCE ?? For that what's this beautiful classic represent's Oh yeah I'm 43 so I guess the young American obsesesion with the cheapest looking plastic,rubber and now this hard foam looking matrials expected in American Auto's...I own a 2002ES 300 and wouldn't sell it for all the tea in China! Yes it's looks leave a lot to be desired, but as far as fuel economy... Keep your tank half full and you or anyone else will surely notice the difference.. No, it dosent Conner like a Dodge Magnum, but it wasn't designed to, And my 1MZFE gives it when I want it...I change my tranny fluid once yearly and in traffic I dubble cluch the gas pedal if I feel the faintest lag in response People just don't seem to understand the fly-by-wire concept....what a shame..mine is silver and as quite as death itself , good luck on your quest for a vehicle of true CHARACTOR if you're leaning towards Detroit
, because this country quit making them way back in the seventies!!!

speedkar9

Frustrating indeed. I started getting pissed with the car a few months after owning it. But that's when I bought my Solara and started interchanging cars. If it wasn't for the Solara I would have long gotten rid of the ES. The transmission behavior in my stop and go traffic commute causes me to become aggressive because the car can't keep up with the flow of traffic, causing other people to cut in front. The more aggressive you are, the more noticeable the transmission lag becomes. Too stressful .

I love my Solara's drive by cable throttle, its so much more responsive! The only thing is the 1MZ-FE isn't as torquey on the highway, so you have to floor it to downshift twice for it to pull. But in day to day traffic the throttle response is how a car should be - instant, which makes it less annoying and more peaceful.
The 1MZ-FE is way more smoother and refined than the 3MZ-FE engine though.

The best I ever got was 26-27 MPG on a straight highway run. It seemed to get worse and worse in the years after I bought my ES, even though I kept on top of all maintenance. Compounding that is a stop and go commute and colder Canadian weather.

I get the same response from some passengers too, they think my driving is bad or I'm too aggressive when the car jerks like that. I can only imagine what people outside the car think if they saw the car jerking like that in stop and go traffic. I've tried to pay attention to other 4ES on the road but have yet to see their whole car jerk.

The problem is how the transmission was programmed. I was going to post a video on this but because I filmed it inside the car, its not easy to understand what is going on, its something you have to experience.

In general, there's three things wrong with the way its programmed:

1) Throttle lag, off the line there's a dead spot in the pedal, causing you to stab the pedal even further causing the car to lurch forward.
2) Transmission lag: slowing down to a rolling stop and then hitting the gas again (as if in stop and go traffic), the transmission seems to have shifted all the way down to gear 1, when it should have been in gear 2 with the car rolling. Reapplying throttle causes the engine to rev up to 2-2.5K RPM and the car to jerk as the car's computer tries to rev match the speed to the gear, and then it shifts into gear 2.
3) Geared too short: The transmission is geared toward fuel economy, and as a result it goes through 4 shifts to get into over drive at 30MPH. This is super annoying if you need to accelerate moderately, as you would expect the car to hold its gear and keep accelerating. Its kinda like the car is running out of breath...oh wait let me shift....then run out of breath, oh wait let me take another breath...etc.

The transmission programming problem is well documented and is also common across all other Toyota V6 vehicles with drive by wire throttle (Camry V6, Solara, Sienna, Highlander, RX330). However it is more pronounced in the ES, as I've driven my dad's 3MZ Sienna and while the throttle response and tranny lag is still evident, its no where nearly as bad as the 4ES.

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/es-...on-fix-18.html

I couldn't agree more, I loved the ES, especially for the interior. If it wasn't for the transmission being programmed so badly, I would have kept the car, despite all the other minor downsides noted in post #1.

Boy it does get dicey in the snow. I too had Primacy tires. I felt like a Corolla driver white-knuckling it on the right lane while it was snowing, while many lesser cars were passing me. I just ended up getting winter tires for the Solara and drove that when it snowed. It has traction control, and in case I spun out and hit something, I wouldn't have lost much.

I did a few transmission fluid changes and didn't find any difference in the shift behavior. Nevertheless, when the transmission is operating normally, the car shifts very smooth. There is no mechanical defect, its just software programming. Resetting the ECU didn't help, and I don't know if the firmware was updated on my ES, because I read that its irreversible and didn't help many.
How is the transmission lag on your 2GS? On my brother's 2GS its only slightly noticeable, no where near as bad as the ES.

Exactly. The 4ES was good example of this, especially with the quality of its interior. You have to be someone who has attention to detail and care about how much engineering and thought was put in to building the car. As much as I would love to own an LS430, I can't justify the high purchase price (in my market) and risk having it dinged again in the parking lot .


Has anyone here went from a 2002-2006 ES to a 2007-2010 ES350 or 2007-09 RX350, or even a Camry V6 or Highlander? Can you share your experiences and comparison between both vehicles?

CF01

Well, I'm glad you had your 4ES. The videos you made with it have been super helpful for me in learning to do some of my own maintenence.

Any particular reason that you are looking at the years of ES and RX that you are? I'd also like to move up to a newer RX for the storage and towing or maybe just another ES to have something in better condition and with newer features than my 4ES. I really haven't liked the interiors on them though until the 2016 models and those are currently more than I can afford.

01LEXPL

iTrader: (10)

I'll offer a partial perspective, based on driving an RX330, yes with the ****ty laggy trans, and even reprogramming it at the dealer and being **** maintenance wise.
Also my old 3ES. I've driven 4ES' as well, and never liked them, they look like oblong bubbles and drive poorly due to DBW & the trans.

The 07+ vehicles are wicked with the 2gr & u660e... goddamn their quick cars. No lagginess or jerking. I'd imagine the RX in AWD setups will be slower, like the RX vs FWD versions.

My 2012 XLE V6 camry is stupid quick, and you don't expect it... I thought my Subaru is quick.

My buddy who's got an IS-F drove my car a few times and he was thrown aback as to how quick it is and SMOOTH... he's also my mech. so he knows my family cars.

TLDR;
HUGE difference, which explains why they ran these cars for so short before a revamp.
The newer motor variations were, IMO [and sales figures wise] much better.

KLF

Our '04 Highlander doesn't have any of this throttle/trans lag BS.

My mom has an '07 ES350 (bought new), totally different. Much nicer ride. None of the jerky behavior we have (had) to deal with.

speedkar9

I want to stay away from the RX with the 3.3L for the same reason I got rid of the 4ES....transmission lag. I'm also considering mostly the 2nd Gen RX because of my price budget. 3rd Gen RX are still $20,000+ here in Canada now.

The dilemma is with all the 2RX's I've seen out there I always came home and asked myself, is there anything more I'm getting besides storage space over the 4ES? I've actually had the RX on my mind for 3 years now at least. The main reason is so I can have something I can fit my bicycle in when I want to go take a ride on a trail or park instead of using bike racks.

I've also considered older Toyota Highlanders (2002-03), mostly as a utility vehicle where I don't have to care too much about its appearance. I wouldn't mind parking it anywhere or throwing bikes inside without worrying if I'll damage the interior. The real bonus is the first gen is drive by CABLE which means no lag at all!

I figured with a heavier body I'd want something faster, so the 3.5L would be better with the AWD setup. I've test driven a 2009 RX350 and while it doesn't "pull hard" the way my 4ES did when accelerating or passing, it just goes. I felt the back end kick in when I stepped on it too.

I can also attest that the V6 Camry / ES350 are really fast cars. A few years ago I test drove a 2012 ES350, and boy was that thing fast! I really want something like this, something smooth, elegant, yet crazy fast when you need the passing power.

There have been many times that a lane was ending and I needed to switch lanes over and I solely trusted the passing power of my V6 engine to overtake vehicles beside me. In that sense, not having a V6 could be a safety issue

The only downside I'm reading with the earlier 2GR's (2007-08) is that they eat water-pumps for breakfast, ignition coils for lunch and defecate oil all over the engine if you didn't get the oil line recall done . I've also read of some transmission flare issues in the earlier ES350's as well, hence why I'm asking for comparisons.

I couldn't get over the 4ES styling when I first bought the car too, especially having had the same generation Camry previously (which IMO looked better). But with time I got used to it, remember you spend most of your time inside the vehicle so that's where styling and comfort should count.

Thanks, I'm glad you found my videos helpful. I love making them to share with the community, and I'm learning just as you are along the way. Right now I've got an old Accord I'm working on and have learned a lot already on it. I look forward in sticking around here though, because my Solara and the ES are mechanically very similar so I'm sure there will be more to share.

hypervish

The transmission flare issues were on early build 2007s, although most of them got a improved transmission under warranty. I would suggest starting to look at 2008 and up. They did a minor refresh in 2010, if you can afford it; I'd look at those. They improved quite a few things, and the interior looks a little less "cheap".

Btw, i watched that Accord lower control arm video for fun, and absolutely lost it at the end when you were like it's a family sedan, it doesn't need sway bar links. Literally spit some water out of my mouth!!

roseyyz

hello Hypervish! Is this quote about your RX300? If it's so I'm about to cry I agree on the bad fuel economy with the thread starter but maybe there is something I can do about it?

OceanView

Sorry to hear you let the car go Speedkar but I understand your reasoning. I too hated the drive by wire system in the 4th Gen ES so I stuck with the 3rd gen. I do think the RX is a good move if you can find one you like, I would love to buy a 3rd gen RX when they come down in price. Maybe in a year or so from now.

Either case, please continue to make your videos on YouTube as I found them very helpful.

funcrusher

Good analysis. I had an 02 ES and it was more comfortable than my current 00 ES but that jerking was bad. These cars are nice but boring. I want a LS430 or GS after this.

SW17LS

I had a 2003 ES from new that was replaced with a 2010 ES350 (also new). The ES300 is actually still in my family.

The ES300 was a great car, I too had the throttle lag but learned to adapt to it. My Dad's 98 LS400 had it too, so I was already sort of used to it. Great interior in that car, you don't find that sort of material quality in entry level cars anymore.

As for comparing it to the 5ES ES350, the 350 is better in every way other than interior material quality. When the 350 came out in 2007 I didn't care for how stark it was, especially inside without the 4ES's wood trim across the dash, etc. The 2010 refresh addressed a lot of that, gained some much needed exterior chrome trim and inside more wood and leather trim which spiced it up a lot. BUT, at its core the material quality is still not as nice as what was in the 4ES, and that material quality in the current 6ES is not as good as what was in that 5ES.

I found the 5ES more enjoyable to drive, ride is about the same while the 5ES handles a little better, seems a little tighter and more nimble. No throttle lag, transmission programming is much better. Additional power is great. Styling wise I think the 5ES is much more attractive especially post the 2010 refresh.The 5ES has a lot more luxury goodies, power tilt and telescoping steering wheel, tilt down mirrors, keyless entry and start. The manual wheel and such always felt downmarket to me in the ES.

Hope that helps!

speedkar9

I knew they did a refresh in 2010 and actually like the front and rear fascias much more than the 07-09. Unfortunately they still go for $18K around here, which is a bit out of my range. What did they change to the interior to make it less cheap?

Haha yeah I threw that in there because I was left with the two souvenirs after doing the job and don't yet have replacements on hand to put in. Speaking of which, I need to find some stabilizer links now...

Thanks for your support, I'm glad you found the videos helpful. I will continue making videos as its my hobby and fun too.

I feel bad for letting such a nice car go, but as a driver, that throttle was just annoying. I could actually see myself driving a 3ES in the future if I didn't have my Solara. I'd want one with a black interior though, and we know that the 97-98's had more durable tranny's than the 99-01's.

I'd love to have an LS430. But the 4 or so listed 2001-02 models go for $8-12K here, that could easily get me into a 5ES, hmm...

The GS is not a bad car either, but I'm kinda scared about the complexity of repairs and availability of parts as I go across to a platform that doesn't share parts with most Toyota's. For example, my brother had to go to the dealership to replace a stripped transmission pan bolt on his 2GS, because it wasn't commonly stocked (other Toyotas use the Hex bolt). There's tons of Camry/ES/Solara/Avalon in the junkyard I can ****** parts from but nothing for IS/LS/GS.

Thanks. I too have to agree having spent a few mins in the 5ES and 6ES at the dealership and autoshow that material quality has taken a down turn after the 4ES. The carpets feel cheaper, and the padding on the armrests don't feel like real leather. And why the ugly gray colored dash on the 5ES? The plastics are grainier and more apparent. Believe it or not, that center console panel that goes around the shifter on the 4ES is actually leather(like) wrapped and not just textured plastic. Just pop it up and you'll see how they stapled the leather(like) material around the panel, just amazing.

Good to know that the throttle lag isn't there in the 5ES. Any issues during stop and go traffic with gear hunting? I too love the styling of 2010+ more, and I feel like I'd regret getting 07-09, having had face-lifted 05.

funcrusher

Speedkar how do you feel about a LS 400? You are right, LS 430's are still pricey. From what I read, 430 is just updated with lots more features inside. I'm not sure which is better on gas, more comfortable, less prone to issues, etc though.

Personally, I'm not a fan of all the crap new cars offer. Most of it useless to me! Every time I get in a new car, I feel like an old man looking at a smart phone haha.