Timing Belt - was it changed or not - mystery!
07-15-14, 01:18 PM
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Timing Belt - was it changed or not - mystery!
Hi, I tried to post this yesterday and it's been swallowed by some cyber monster, so I will try again.
I have a 2003 Lexus ES 300, 123K, sweet ride that has caused -0- problems in and of itself. Any problems have been caused by mechanics (see my other thread about someone putting the wrong transmission fluid in and creating a whine).
Last year in May I knew I was moving across the country, MD to CO, and I had my mechanic do whatever it needed for the number of miles it had at that time and nearly died of sticker shock when I paid $1,640 for a new timing belt, a new water pump, and a bunch of other things he said were routine maintenance. Well ok. He'd been a good mechanic and an acquaintance/friend on a social basis, and I had no reason to complain about his work, ever, so I didn't complain.
Fast forward to April of this year, after a move from CO to GA. New mechanic looks at the timing belt and says it's the original, and that if the timing belt wasn't replaced, chances are the water pump and all the other work hasn't been done either. I almost died. Instead, I took the car across town to an unrelated shop, one that is specialized in foreign cars, been in business multi generations for 40 years, and came highly recommended by folks at church. They ALSO say the original belt is still in there. Their estimate to do all the work: $780. Now I was really sick - two mechanics swearing my MD mechanic ripped me off and charged me double the price for work he never did.
After stewing for a couple of weeks, I had a friend go see the MD mechanic, and I talked to him on the phone. He was just dumbfounded, as nobody had ever had such a complaint before. He says that he uses one of two manufacturers for the belts and they both supply Toyota with the belts that go in new cars. He says that if someone is looking for a belt to have a brand name of a typical after market company, they won't find it. He says they may not have expected a garage to use the belts he uses, and that's the only explanation he can find. He swears that to the best of his knowledge, the work was done. He has invoices where he ordered the parts. He did not personally do the work - says it was done by an older mechanic who had been with him for years and who has since retired. He says in order for this to have happened, the mechanic would have had to have done away with the new parts, and he (the owner) would have had to have been so "out of it" that he didn't realize that no work was being performed on my car and he just doesn't believe that happened. Also, he says that the original belt would have broken by now (123K).
Now bear in mind, this car is running beautifully and has had -0- issues.
I finally decided to go with what my old mechanic told me and just trust that he did the work and all is well. I hope I am right!
I am posting this to see if anyone else has ever had this experience, and to let folks know that this can happen.
I have a 2003 Lexus ES 300, 123K, sweet ride that has caused -0- problems in and of itself. Any problems have been caused by mechanics (see my other thread about someone putting the wrong transmission fluid in and creating a whine).
Last year in May I knew I was moving across the country, MD to CO, and I had my mechanic do whatever it needed for the number of miles it had at that time and nearly died of sticker shock when I paid $1,640 for a new timing belt, a new water pump, and a bunch of other things he said were routine maintenance. Well ok. He'd been a good mechanic and an acquaintance/friend on a social basis, and I had no reason to complain about his work, ever, so I didn't complain.
Fast forward to April of this year, after a move from CO to GA. New mechanic looks at the timing belt and says it's the original, and that if the timing belt wasn't replaced, chances are the water pump and all the other work hasn't been done either. I almost died. Instead, I took the car across town to an unrelated shop, one that is specialized in foreign cars, been in business multi generations for 40 years, and came highly recommended by folks at church. They ALSO say the original belt is still in there. Their estimate to do all the work: $780. Now I was really sick - two mechanics swearing my MD mechanic ripped me off and charged me double the price for work he never did.
After stewing for a couple of weeks, I had a friend go see the MD mechanic, and I talked to him on the phone. He was just dumbfounded, as nobody had ever had such a complaint before. He says that he uses one of two manufacturers for the belts and they both supply Toyota with the belts that go in new cars. He says that if someone is looking for a belt to have a brand name of a typical after market company, they won't find it. He says they may not have expected a garage to use the belts he uses, and that's the only explanation he can find. He swears that to the best of his knowledge, the work was done. He has invoices where he ordered the parts. He did not personally do the work - says it was done by an older mechanic who had been with him for years and who has since retired. He says in order for this to have happened, the mechanic would have had to have done away with the new parts, and he (the owner) would have had to have been so "out of it" that he didn't realize that no work was being performed on my car and he just doesn't believe that happened. Also, he says that the original belt would have broken by now (123K).
Now bear in mind, this car is running beautifully and has had -0- issues.
I finally decided to go with what my old mechanic told me and just trust that he did the work and all is well. I hope I am right!
I am posting this to see if anyone else has ever had this experience, and to let folks know that this can happen.
07-15-14, 01:41 PM
#2
Lexus Test Driver
How did the two mechanics determine that the timing belt was not changed? Did they pull the cover off and visually inspect the belt or just notice that there was no sticker on the cover which states when it was replaced?
07-15-14, 02:53 PM
#3
sticker shock when I paid $1,640 for a new timing belt, a new water pump, and a bunch of other things he said were routine maintenance.
A timing belt purchased at a Dealer would say Toyota right on the belt. A belt not purchased at a Dealer will usually have just the manufacturer's name on it. Perhaps the belt he used had the Toyota brand on it and the mechanics figured it was original or it showed some unusual wear on it. Maybe your original mechanic can call the retired mechanic and ask him if he remembers doing the job.
07-15-14, 08:35 PM
#5
However, your mechanic wasn't completely right either, if it were the original belt, at 123k miles the belt could very well still be intact. There are a few members on here posting about being on the original belt well past 100k miles...
07-16-14, 07:47 AM
#6
Lexus Test Driver
To inspect the timing belt, you will have to remove the timing belt plastic cover which would require removal a few things (harness, engine brackets, etc)....if I remember correctly. Therefore, it would require at least 30 minutes to to remove those things. Did your "new" mechanics do that?
Also, even an old timing belt can look "decent".
Some claims that they are on original timing belt at 160k miles.....
Also, even an old timing belt can look "decent".
Some claims that they are on original timing belt at 160k miles.....
Last edited by BDSL; 07-16-14 at 10:13 AM.
07-16-14, 09:02 AM
#7
I'm going to ask a question that was asked over at the Tundra forum -
Has anyone ever had or heard of a timing belt breaking?
I know that timing belt replacement is more of a religious issue than anything else. There are those who would swear on their mothers grave that it has to be done or you'll burn in hell for all eternity. But the question remains, have anyone ever heard of it happening.
As usual, no links or it never happened.
Has anyone ever had or heard of a timing belt breaking?
I know that timing belt replacement is more of a religious issue than anything else. There are those who would swear on their mothers grave that it has to be done or you'll burn in hell for all eternity. But the question remains, have anyone ever heard of it happening.
As usual, no links or it never happened.
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07-16-14, 10:36 AM
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A friend of mine had a timing belt break on her Subaru (unfortunately, an interference engine) while the car was going up a steep on-ramp. I had a Toyota that had the brand-new timing belt slip (because of oil on it due to botched installation of oil seals) -- catastrophic result as far as the engine was concerned, leaving me & family stranded in rural Illinois on a subzero night between Christmas and New Year's. Recent timing belt change on the ES300 at 183,000 miles may also have been problematic: anyone had an oil pan leak or power steering pump leak right after the timing belt change? I'll search elsewhere in the forum but thought I'd ask.
07-16-14, 10:53 AM
#10
Driver School Candidate
Its hard to tell if a timing belt has been done just by looking at it. Just like any belt it will show wear from the pulleys in the first few hundred miles. The only way to know for sure if a timing belt and component kit was done is look at the bottom side by the crank pulley at the auto tensioner. When we do our timing belts here we replace all timing belt components such as pulleys, water pump, belt, and auto tensioner. You should be able to tell if it is new just by looking at it. It wont have nearly as much road grime as the components around it. Call and ask your previous mechanic if the auto tensioner was replaced per his receipts and invoice he found on your car. If he says yes and the tensioner is the original, you have your answer.
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03-06-19, 04:48 PM
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I'm going to ask a question that was asked over at the Tundra forum -
Has anyone ever had or heard of a timing belt breaking?
I know that timing belt replacement is more of a religious issue than anything else. There are those who would swear on their mothers grave that it has to be done or you'll burn in hell for all eternity. But the question remains, have anyone ever heard of it happening.
As usual, no links or it never happened.
Has anyone ever had or heard of a timing belt breaking?
I know that timing belt replacement is more of a religious issue than anything else. There are those who would swear on their mothers grave that it has to be done or you'll burn in hell for all eternity. But the question remains, have anyone ever heard of it happening.
As usual, no links or it never happened.
03-16-19, 08:14 PM
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I just changed my original timing belt on 94 es300 at 172k miles... got lucky I guess... my mechanic charged 1100.00 … new belt, water pump, tensioner , and a new power steering pump. I bought the car at 82k and I don't think it had ever been changed. Neighbor bought the car at 38k and sold it to me at 82k and she had never changed it.
03-17-19, 02:52 AM
#14
I just changed my original timing belt on 94 es300 at 172k miles... got lucky I guess... my mechanic charged 1100.00 … new belt, water pump, tensioner , and a new power steering pump. I bought the car at 82k and I don't think it had ever been changed. Neighbor bought the car at 38k and sold it to me at 82k and she had never changed it.
03-17-19, 10:50 AM
#15
Lexus Champion
Unless the PS pump is defective, there is no need to change it. The only PS maintenance you could consider is flushing and replacing the PS fluid. But even doing that is not critical. Checking or changing the PS belt is a good idea though.