CJG

Hey all... first post to this group. Disclaimer: I am not at all mechanically inclined. Will do my best to describe/explain the situation.

I have a 1998 ES300 with 190k miles. It had been leaking oil (small amt) for a while. Was told it would be over $1k to fix, as there would be a lot of labor involved, including removing timing belt, which was also recommended to be changed out. I opted to not do this, as I wasn't sure how long the car was going to last.

A couple of weeks ago, I bit the bullet. I need the car to last me another year (or more), and figured $1k ($1400, actually) for a year's worth of driving was worth it.

The local mechanic did the following (copying from the invoice):

Timing Belt, Water Pump
Valve Cover Gaskets
Front Crankshaft Seal
Brake Fluid/Master Cylinder (not sure if this is relevant, but including it for the sake of thoroughness)

Got the car back Saturday evening. Monday morning started it up, and HOLY COW THE SMOKE. A ton of white smoke coming from the exhaust. I mean lots.

I thought maybe there was just oil that needed to be burned off (I was told the timing belt had been drenched in oil). Drove it around, and noticed that if I was at a stop and then accelerated, the white smoke made an appearance (i felt horrible for anybody behind me). On rare occasion while driving, it felt like the RPMs dipped a bit and there was a bit of visible smoke from the exhaust, but nothing like when I'd accelerate from a stop.

Stopped over at the mechanic to let them know. They said it was probably just oil burning off, and if it didn't improve by Thursday, bring it in.

Wednesday, the oil light came on.

Thursday, I brought it in.

After having it for the day, the called me to come get it. They said that there was one spark plug that was covered in oil. They replaced the spark plugs. They changed out the oil and the oil filter. They told me to drive it around for 500 miles and to bring it back.

So here's where I'm at. It'll take a while for me to hit 500 miles. I work from home, and the car is mainly to get me to the store. To the gym. Just getting around town. And right now when I do, it's horrible. The smoke is still there. I hate being at a light and knowing what I'm about to do to the person behind me. It's horribly embarrassing. So I've been using my wife's car as much as possible, but that's not going to help me get the issue fixed.

I have a number of concerns here. First off, I just put $1400 into this car. The issue I'm describing didn't occur before that fix. The mechanic is telling me that sometimes when you plug a leak (in my case, there were a few), the improved pressure causes leaks elsewhere. This sounds reasonable, but I'm really concerned about having to put more $ into the car. He's working with me as much as he can. He didn't charge me anything for the spark plug replacement (again, they replaced 6) or the oil change. But I also don't want them getting screwed if it's a legitimate fix. If they did properly fix the previous leaks, and that genuinely caused new leaks, that's my problem, not theirs.

Clearly tho, something that was done resulted in this issue. It NEVER happened before. Not a single trace of white smoke on starting it up, and now the smoke literally fills my garage and most of the front yard. Whether this is a legitimate side-effect of their fix, I don't know. But I don't think they know what it is.

I've been in this forum for a little over a month, as I recently picked up a 2004 RX330 for my wife. I've found the folks over in that group to be _very_ knowledgeable about the RX models. Thought it would certainly be worth asking here if anybody knows what might be going on, and what I can possibly do about it. The thought of having to try and drive this thing for another 490 miles before bringing it back to the mechanic, spewing white smoke every time i accelerate from a stop, is really not appealing to me

Any ideas? Any additional info I can provide?

Thanks in advance.
Charlie

download

Take a closer look of the engine oil level.
If it is losing engine oil, check my sludge solution. It helps to reduce 95% white smoke from starting.
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/es3...ml#post7565437

PFB

Are you sure that the white smoke is there after the car has reached normal operating temperatures? Also are you sure it's White and not any other color?

Does the white smoke dissipate immidiatley, or does it linger in the air for a while?

Did anyone add any fuel additive, or do an injection cleaning? Did you fill up the fuel tank lately?

Are you missing any coolant? How is the car running? Any check engine lights on?

Any idea what caused the oil to be low, or the sparkplugs to be fouled.

Lastly, take the car on the highway for at least a 20 mile drive, and see if things improve after that.

Phil

CJG

Hi Phil: Thanks for the reply. Answers inline.

The smoke is there after reaching normal operating temperature. On acceleration. 2 days after picking it up, I drove about 20 miles (each way) and at pretty much every stop sign or stop light, it spewed the white smoke on acceleration.

It lingers. Not sure what you'd consider "a while", but it definitely lingers in the garage and the front yard. As I'm driving away from the house, I can still see it lingering in the rear view

No to both.

I will check coolant, but I expect it will be ok. Other than the spewing of the smoke, the car runs well. Although on rare occasions when driving (highway), I do notice what seems to be a drop in RPM and then the smoke makes an appearance. But in those occasions the smoke is not as pronounced as it is when accelerating from a stop.

The only change was the service as described in my original post. The engine had been slowly leaking oil for a while, which I addressed by throwing down some absorbent stuff on the garage floor. I didn't think i'd be keeping the car long enough to justify the $1000+ cost of fixing the leaks and changing out the timing belt.

Once that service was done, yeah, the mechanic mentioned the timing belt was covered in oil and highly corroded. So while I don't know what caused the oil to be low (I didn't notice any leaks), I expect the sparkplugs were fouled by the same oil leaks that were corroding the timing belt.

Unfortunately, already done. No improvement

CJG

While I'm not ruling anything out at the moment, this issue did not exist (even a little bit) before the service that I described in my initial post (changing out of front camshaft oil seals, timing belt, water pump, valve cover gaskets, front crankshaft seal, oil change). If it were a sludge issue, I'd think that would have built up over time. I have to think that it's somehow related to the work that was done. Just not sure what

CJG

Hm... maybe the sludge idea has more merit to it than I originally thought.

The mechanic provided a print-up of the page found at http://www.justanswer.com/lexus/3o8a...ange-used.html. It describes a 98 ES300 that had an oil change, and now seems to be exhibiting the same behavior as mine.

One suggestion was that the oil change actually loosened up some of the sluge/build-up, which is responsible for the white smoke (oil burn off?).

Looking more closely at the work that was done the 2nd time I brought the car in (when they changed out the spark plugs), they did an oil change and went with 10W-30. From the invoice:

"Checked compression all within normal specs #2 spark plug is oil fouled. Replaced spark plugs and changed oil and filter to high mileage 10/30 as suggested for this high of mileage."

So... maybe they actually are on the right track and I do need to just drive it around for a while and burn off the sludge?

I'm hesitant to implement download's suggestion in his reply only because emissions is a big deal here in AZ.

PFB

Considering your responses, than it does sound like a head gasket/cracked blocked issue. It's just strange that it started right after you got back your car from the garage.

Perhaps they initially forgot to replenish the coolant after they changed the water pump, and than they let the car idle and it overheated. But this is just speculation.

And no, the oil leaks would not cause your spark plugs to foul up. They fouled up for another reason.

Did your car ever overheat in the last year or so?

I'm also probably safe in assuming that you don't have a sludge issue, as your garage would have seen the sludge build up when they changed your valve cover gaskets, and mentioned it to you.

I'm out of ideas for now, but I'm sure that others will chime in.

BTW, you can have your coolant chemically analyzed for the presence of combustion gases. A radiator shop, or well equipped garage can do that. It's relatively I inexpensive.

It also won't hurt to change your PCV valve. Less than $20 and 5 minutes of labor. May help.

Phil

charley240

iTrader: (6)

I dont think its a sludge issue, either valve stem seals or headgasket. Should do another compression check elsewhere to make sure. If compression is all fairly even with each other, then the valve stem seals are leaking massively. They are probably bad anyways, but maybe in your case extremely bad
Goodluck
Charley

CJG

Drove over to the mechanic. Told him I'd like to look into doing the PCV valve and the head gaskets. He said that we're looking at another ~$1300, and that's with him knocking off a few hours labor. The store's part of a chain, so my guess is there's only so much flexibility that they can allow. I do get the feeling that they're sympathetic to the fact that I just put $1400 into the car, and it's ~15 years old, but yeah... there's only so much they can do.

I'm not sure I can justify another $1300 at this point. When I put the $1400 in 2 weeks ago, I knew it was a risk. I hoped the car would last another year. I knew it might not. But boy I didn't think it'd go this quickly.

Will take the weekend to consider what to do. Carmax offered me $1000 for it right before I had the work done. Maybe I do that. Lose a few hundred on the repairs from 2 weeks ago. Pick up a more reliable vehicle at Carmax.

In any event, I appreciate all of the suggestions and ideas. Still open to any additional thoughts

PFB

For that price is he doing both head gaskets or just one?

How did he confirm the problem?

hypervish

Why does he want another $1300?

Something fishy is going on.

If the white smoke wasn't present before the job, and magically started after having the work done it is too big of a coincidence to ignore.

PuReChaos

Just curious... but what's the chain store you're bringing the car to?

I'm also a bit skeptical about this occurring after having had the previous work done.

CJG

I believe he said both. He didn't confirm. I went in asking for an estimate on having it done.

They said that when you patch a leak (or a number of leaks, as was the case), now that the pressure's been restored, it can find other areas of weakness. Being a programmer, I understand that. I write (or fix) code in one area, and now previously working code in other areas breaks.

They've already done some work for free. I brought it back after the initial repair, and they swapped out 6 spark plugs and changed out the oil and filter, at no cost to me.

It's entirely possible that i'm off on this. I acknowledge that. But I really don't think it's anything fishy going on. I think it's just the risks associated with having a 15 year old car with 190k miles
on it.


Starting to lean back towards doing the additional work. I think I'd rather double down on this bet and put out another $1300 than go buy a car that I'm not ready to buy yet. It'd be a year of paying off the $1300 versus 5 years of payments. I accept that there will be car payments in my future. I'm just not quite ready for them yet, and can't yet go get the car that I really want.

CJG

I wasn't sure about naming them, but I guess there's no harm. It's a Big O Tires. Actually under new management. The guy I talked to today mentioned how they wanted to do what they can to help me out in the situation, as right now their focus is on creating and growing a customer base.

yeskay

i would rule out valve stem since it causes blue smoke not white smoke. amazing you did a major service with big o rather with toyota dealership or toyota certified. are you aware that the es 300 engine is shared by camry v6. i would suggest taking to a toyota dealer for diagnosis before you go to big o.