98 Lexus ES300 Stalling/Rough
02-26-23, 09:30 AM
#1
Rookie
Thread Starter
98 Lexus ES300 Stalling/Rough
So guys, I'm thinking I got scammed out of $4,000 and I really need your help.
TL;DR, my elementary school friend sold me a car and he's a mechanic; claimed it was completely new engine (tore out & replaced all internals) and rebuilt transmission. Drove it home fine, for 2 1/2 hours and when I got home it was dripping oil.
It's a 1998 Lexus ES300, with 169K on the dashboard and the current (main) problem I'm having is the car is stalling out when idling.
I'll start it up, and it's a very rough idle it shakes the entire engine. RPMs (on cold) go to about 2000RPM which he claims is normal.
Then it will drop to around 1000 for 10 or so minutes, then go below 500 and want to die and eventually it does die.
The bottom of the car is saturated in what looks like oil (but personally I'm unsure because the oil on the dipstick is vegetable oil color and whats on the ground is brown almost dark brown), and from the radiator area it was leaking a red fluid color (looks more like power steering fluid vs whats on transmission dipstick).
Does anyone have any ideas? I took apart the entire air-intake box, and got to the IAC but it doesn't look dirty. He claims the TB and IAC were cleaned but the MAF wasn't. The MAF looks in pristine condition including the rubber gasket.
Air Filter has a little bit of dirt on it, but nothing that would cause it to completely idle out.
Also, I drove it up a hill and the MPH said 0 MPH, and it BARELY carried it's own weight. I almost had to pull over and just park it. It drove strong on the way home and now it's basically a $4,000 paperweight.
EDIT - I uploaded a ton of photos, to help you guys help me. Just awaiting moderator approval.
TL;DR, my elementary school friend sold me a car and he's a mechanic; claimed it was completely new engine (tore out & replaced all internals) and rebuilt transmission. Drove it home fine, for 2 1/2 hours and when I got home it was dripping oil.
It's a 1998 Lexus ES300, with 169K on the dashboard and the current (main) problem I'm having is the car is stalling out when idling.
I'll start it up, and it's a very rough idle it shakes the entire engine. RPMs (on cold) go to about 2000RPM which he claims is normal.
Then it will drop to around 1000 for 10 or so minutes, then go below 500 and want to die and eventually it does die.
The bottom of the car is saturated in what looks like oil (but personally I'm unsure because the oil on the dipstick is vegetable oil color and whats on the ground is brown almost dark brown), and from the radiator area it was leaking a red fluid color (looks more like power steering fluid vs whats on transmission dipstick).
Does anyone have any ideas? I took apart the entire air-intake box, and got to the IAC but it doesn't look dirty. He claims the TB and IAC were cleaned but the MAF wasn't. The MAF looks in pristine condition including the rubber gasket.
Air Filter has a little bit of dirt on it, but nothing that would cause it to completely idle out.
Also, I drove it up a hill and the MPH said 0 MPH, and it BARELY carried it's own weight. I almost had to pull over and just park it. It drove strong on the way home and now it's basically a $4,000 paperweight.
EDIT - I uploaded a ton of photos, to help you guys help me. Just awaiting moderator approval.
02-26-23, 09:32 AM
#2
Rookie
Thread Starter
Oil Pan
Dry Oil under Oil Cap
Wider View Oil Pan
Oil Cap Underneath
Transmission Fluid Color
Wet Belts
Oil Dipstick Color
The 3 holes you see are where the pool of red fluid was coming from.
Red fluid coming from under radiator.
Oil Dried under cap.
Wet Belts
Dented Oil Pan
02-26-23, 03:56 PM
#3
Pole Position
Hello,
First of all, I would start by checking the compression, along with the Spark Plugs, a pretty easy procedure that can save a ton of havoc later down the line, no point in diagnosing an engine with no compression any further.
For all the rest, you will need a good scan tool, one that can read Engine Live Data, a used option would be the cheapest way to get one.
Start by looking through Engine Live Data - look for Misfire Count, Fuel Trims, Throttle Position, Ignition Timing. Misfire Count will show which cylinder is misfiring, Fuel Trims, in essence, adjust how long an injector is opened, here you can find a lot more details, they should basically be as close to 0 as possible, anything beyond 10 is a cause for suspicion. Throttle Position shows how much it's open, it should never be 0, about 10-15% on idle is fine. Ignition Timing is when the spark strikes, in degrees, before the piston reaches TDC, it should be about 5-10 at idle.
2000RPM is a lot for the idle, even for those cars, it's usually about 1500RPM unless it's really cold outside, closing up to 600-800 as it warms up. It sounds a lot like the IAC valve is in Fault Mode, with the bimetallic spring adjusting the idle instead of the solenoids, like if it were to be unplugged or simply dead, here you can find more information about those specific IAC valves, they work differently from most other ones.
Here is a thread on how to check for Vacuum Leaks, see if you have any.
Hope this helps and best of luck!
First of all, I would start by checking the compression, along with the Spark Plugs, a pretty easy procedure that can save a ton of havoc later down the line, no point in diagnosing an engine with no compression any further.
For all the rest, you will need a good scan tool, one that can read Engine Live Data, a used option would be the cheapest way to get one.
Start by looking through Engine Live Data - look for Misfire Count, Fuel Trims, Throttle Position, Ignition Timing. Misfire Count will show which cylinder is misfiring, Fuel Trims, in essence, adjust how long an injector is opened, here you can find a lot more details, they should basically be as close to 0 as possible, anything beyond 10 is a cause for suspicion. Throttle Position shows how much it's open, it should never be 0, about 10-15% on idle is fine. Ignition Timing is when the spark strikes, in degrees, before the piston reaches TDC, it should be about 5-10 at idle.
2000RPM is a lot for the idle, even for those cars, it's usually about 1500RPM unless it's really cold outside, closing up to 600-800 as it warms up. It sounds a lot like the IAC valve is in Fault Mode, with the bimetallic spring adjusting the idle instead of the solenoids, like if it were to be unplugged or simply dead, here you can find more information about those specific IAC valves, they work differently from most other ones.
Here is a thread on how to check for Vacuum Leaks, see if you have any.
Hope this helps and best of luck!
02-26-23, 08:15 PM
#4
Rookie
Thread Starter
Hello,
First of all, I would start by checking the compression, along with the Spark Plugs, a pretty easy procedure that can save a ton of havoc later down the line, no point in diagnosing an engine with no compression any further.
For all the rest, you will need a good scan tool, one that can read Engine Live Data, a used option would be the cheapest way to get one.
Start by looking through Engine Live Data - look for Misfire Count, Fuel Trims, Throttle Position, Ignition Timing. Misfire Count will show which cylinder is misfiring, Fuel Trims, in essence, adjust how long an injector is opened, here you can find a lot more details, they should basically be as close to 0 as possible, anything beyond 10 is a cause for suspicion. Throttle Position shows how much it's open, it should never be 0, about 10-15% on idle is fine. Ignition Timing is when the spark strikes, in degrees, before the piston reaches TDC, it should be about 5-10 at idle.
2000RPM is a lot for the idle, even for those cars, it's usually about 1500RPM unless it's really cold outside, closing up to 600-800 as it warms up. It sounds a lot like the IAC valve is in Fault Mode, with the bimetallic spring adjusting the idle instead of the solenoids, like if it were to be unplugged or simply dead, here you can find more information about those specific IAC valves, they work differently from most other ones.
Here is a thread on how to check for Vacuum Leaks, see if you have any.
Hope this helps and best of luck!
First of all, I would start by checking the compression, along with the Spark Plugs, a pretty easy procedure that can save a ton of havoc later down the line, no point in diagnosing an engine with no compression any further.
For all the rest, you will need a good scan tool, one that can read Engine Live Data, a used option would be the cheapest way to get one.
Start by looking through Engine Live Data - look for Misfire Count, Fuel Trims, Throttle Position, Ignition Timing. Misfire Count will show which cylinder is misfiring, Fuel Trims, in essence, adjust how long an injector is opened, here you can find a lot more details, they should basically be as close to 0 as possible, anything beyond 10 is a cause for suspicion. Throttle Position shows how much it's open, it should never be 0, about 10-15% on idle is fine. Ignition Timing is when the spark strikes, in degrees, before the piston reaches TDC, it should be about 5-10 at idle.
2000RPM is a lot for the idle, even for those cars, it's usually about 1500RPM unless it's really cold outside, closing up to 600-800 as it warms up. It sounds a lot like the IAC valve is in Fault Mode, with the bimetallic spring adjusting the idle instead of the solenoids, like if it were to be unplugged or simply dead, here you can find more information about those specific IAC valves, they work differently from most other ones.
Here is a thread on how to check for Vacuum Leaks, see if you have any.
Hope this helps and best of luck!
Mind you I'm just a YouTube mechanic, so take everything I say with a grain of salt if I sound stupid.
03-04-23, 08:30 PM
#5
Rookie
Thread Starter
Okay so here's some updates...
Things I replaced brand new -
O2 Downstream Sensor
IAC Valve
Oil Pressure Sensor Switch
Fuel Filter
and still the car idles rough but now it isn't gradual, its almost instant. The car will turn on at a idle speed of around 1500-2500 on a not cold but not fully operating temp startup, and go to 1000 and then just kick the bucket and stall out all in under 3-5 seconds.
I have no idea what else to check, i tried messing with the throttle cable to see if i can force the car to idle higher but nothing is helping. once I get the car on the road it seems to drive fine but I'm scared to take it far incase I get stranded.
Things I replaced brand new -
O2 Downstream Sensor
IAC Valve
Oil Pressure Sensor Switch
Fuel Filter
and still the car idles rough but now it isn't gradual, its almost instant. The car will turn on at a idle speed of around 1500-2500 on a not cold but not fully operating temp startup, and go to 1000 and then just kick the bucket and stall out all in under 3-5 seconds.
I have no idea what else to check, i tried messing with the throttle cable to see if i can force the car to idle higher but nothing is helping. once I get the car on the road it seems to drive fine but I'm scared to take it far incase I get stranded.
03-04-23, 08:44 PM
#6
Lexus Champion
Have you checked out the charging system? Specifically voltage at idle. Could try replacing the EFI temp sensor 89428-41010 a bad one will make the engine run very poorly.
03-04-23, 09:22 PM
#7
Rookie
Thread Starter
I have not, is there a throttle body idle relearn procedure for this year / make? wondering if I just need to go drive it and let the ecu relearn
Trending Topics
03-04-23, 10:17 PM
#8
Pole Position
What happens if you hold the throttle a bit before it dies out?
No, there isn't such procedure for those cars..
Here is how the IAC valve operates, in short, it has a bimetallic spring that expands with heat, it provides a Fail-Safe function in case the electronics fail. To see if the IAC valve could be your cause, you can try unplugging it completely to see if it will change anything.
Hope this helps and best of luck!
03-05-23, 07:05 AM
#9
Rookie
Thread Starter
Which IAC Valve did you use?
What happens if you hold the throttle a bit before it dies out?
No, there isn't such procedure for those cars..
Here is how the IAC valve operates, in short, it has a bimetallic spring that expands with heat, it provides a Fail-Safe function in case the electronics fail. To see if the IAC valve could be your cause, you can try unplugging it completely to see if it will change anything.
I would really suggest avoiding messing with the Throttle Cable, it is not responsible for the Idle speed, and leaving the throttle partially open can result in all sorts of malfunctions, main of which usually being harsh and unstable gear shifts, as the car keeps thinking that the gas pedal is depressed even when you hold the brakes. The cable should have a bit of play in it when fully released, it should not be tight at all.
Hope this helps and best of luck!
What happens if you hold the throttle a bit before it dies out?
No, there isn't such procedure for those cars..
Here is how the IAC valve operates, in short, it has a bimetallic spring that expands with heat, it provides a Fail-Safe function in case the electronics fail. To see if the IAC valve could be your cause, you can try unplugging it completely to see if it will change anything.
I would really suggest avoiding messing with the Throttle Cable, it is not responsible for the Idle speed, and leaving the throttle partially open can result in all sorts of malfunctions, main of which usually being harsh and unstable gear shifts, as the car keeps thinking that the gas pedal is depressed even when you hold the brakes. The cable should have a bit of play in it when fully released, it should not be tight at all.
Hope this helps and best of luck!
If I hold the throttle let's say at around 3k, even with my foot on the pedal it will drop from 3k down to 200 and stall put quickly.
And okay I will put throttle cable back to where it was
03-05-23, 08:39 AM
#10
Rookie
Thread Starter
Uhh actually, anyone have any recommendations on where to put the throttle cable screws back to for stock placement?
EDIT - I should mention, they **were** marked. The marks have dissapeared now, and now I'm unsure where to replace the stock nuts. Also, the throttle cable bracket (the thing in between the two nuts; the rubber on it that slides over the throttle part coming from the TB is dryrotted and is causing a loose connection no matter how tight I get the two nuts. Will this cause a issue? I don't want the throttle cable coming off when I'm going 60+
Also, my radiator fans do not come on with AC running at operating temp. They do come on if I unplug temperature sensor cable located under the fan cable.
Does this mean the temperature sensor is bad? Car doesn't neccesarily overheat.
I replaced Fan No. 2 relay yesterday, parts store was out of Fan No. 1 relay.
EDIT - I should mention, they **were** marked. The marks have dissapeared now, and now I'm unsure where to replace the stock nuts. Also, the throttle cable bracket (the thing in between the two nuts; the rubber on it that slides over the throttle part coming from the TB is dryrotted and is causing a loose connection no matter how tight I get the two nuts. Will this cause a issue? I don't want the throttle cable coming off when I'm going 60+
Also, my radiator fans do not come on with AC running at operating temp. They do come on if I unplug temperature sensor cable located under the fan cable.
Does this mean the temperature sensor is bad? Car doesn't neccesarily overheat.
I replaced Fan No. 2 relay yesterday, parts store was out of Fan No. 1 relay.
Last edited by AptNull; 03-05-23 at 09:02 AM.
03-05-23, 03:40 PM
#11
Pole Position
A video of the car stalling would be helpful.
Just in case, look for any signs of aftermarket wiring around the car, especially for any aftermarket alarms and such, those can be sitting in the car for years before stating to cause problems, and this one sounds a lot like it.
Look through Engine Live Data, see what gets cut out each time the car stalls, look for Misfire Count, Engine RPM, Ignition Timing. Also use a Test Light to check if all the fuses for Injection and Spark are getting power, which may show some hidden alarm as written above.
The cable should be a little loose when the gas pedal is released, just enough to feel it on the pedal, but not too much, as it will limit how much you can open the throttle. It would frankly be better if it is loose the tight, just in case.
There should be plenty of those at the junkyard if you are worried of it sliding out, it's not too complicated to replace. There is a metal lining on the inside of the rubber piece, no matter how tight you crank it, you will not compress the rubber.
While the smaller fan should be active when the A/C is on, it may be a little too cold for for it to be on, as it is also wired through the Temperature sensor on one of the A/C lines. The sensor on the bottom of a radiator is actually a Temperature Switch, it will likely outlast the whole car, never heard of any of them failing, the reason fans kicked in is because it's a Normally Closed Switch as a Fail Safe function, by disconnecting it you Opened the Circuit, aka turned on the switch.
I would actually suggest sticking with OEM relays, junkyards have more than plenty of them a lot cheaper than any parts store, with a lot higher quality, as those don't fail unless there is a very specific reason for them to do so. Same goes for fuses, I always tend to take some when I am out there.
Hope this helps and best of luck!
Just in case, look for any signs of aftermarket wiring around the car, especially for any aftermarket alarms and such, those can be sitting in the car for years before stating to cause problems, and this one sounds a lot like it.
Look through Engine Live Data, see what gets cut out each time the car stalls, look for Misfire Count, Engine RPM, Ignition Timing. Also use a Test Light to check if all the fuses for Injection and Spark are getting power, which may show some hidden alarm as written above.
Also, the throttle cable bracket (the thing in between the two nuts; the rubber on it that slides over the throttle part coming from the TB is dryrotted and is causing a loose connection no matter how tight I get the two nuts. Will this cause a issue? I don't want the throttle cable coming off when I'm going 60+
Hope this helps and best of luck!
03-05-23, 03:56 PM
#12
Rookie
Thread Starter
A video of the car stalling would be helpful.
Just in case, look for any signs of aftermarket wiring around the car, especially for any aftermarket alarms and such, those can be sitting in the car for years before stating to cause problems, and this one sounds a lot like it.
--I tried uploading a bunch of pictures on here but these forums don't seem very active. It's been over a week and the moderator of this forum hasn't approved my photos so you guys can see them so I don't know what's up with that.
Look through Engine Live Data, see what gets cut out each time the car stalls, look for Misfire Count, Engine RPM, Ignition Timing. Also use a Test Light to check if all the fuses for Injection and Spark are getting power, which may show some hidden alarm as written above.
--I don't have the money to buy a scan tool high quality enough to see ELD.. I'm just going off of YouTube and prayers honestly. Spark Plugs/Coils are good. I unplugged each one one at a time while car was running (saw from a video) and listened for spark. It gets spark on Bank 1... can't really get to Bank 2 at the moment.
The cable should be a little loose when the gas pedal is released, just enough to feel it on the pedal, but not too much, as it will limit how much you can open the throttle. It would frankly be better if it is loose the tight, just in case.
--Okay, I corrected it from what I remember it being. It did have a bit of slack (which is why we messed with it in the first place) and we thought it would set the idle speed higher so it would stop stalling..
There should be plenty of those at the junkyard if you are worried of it sliding out, it's not too complicated to replace. There is a metal lining on the inside of the rubber piece, no matter how tight you crank it, you will not compress the rubber.
--I was just at the Junk Yard today, shame I didn't think of grabbing one. I will have to grab one next time I go just for peace of mind.
While the smaller fan should be active when the A/C is on, it may be a little too cold for for it to be on, as it is also wired through the Temperature sensor on one of the A/C lines. The sensor on the bottom of a radiator is actually a Temperature Switch, it will likely outlast the whole car, never heard of any of them failing, the reason fans kicked in is because it's a --Normally Closed Switch as a Fail Safe function, by disconnecting it you Opened the Circuit, aka turned on the switch.
--I actually grabbed all radiator fan fuses off of two different Toyota Corrola/Camrys today. The big Green Radiator Fan No.1 fuse was exactly the same. I also grabbed a new Fan No.2 fuse even though I just bought one yesterday, still the fans do not come on unless I unplug the temp sensor cable that is at the top of the fan (driver side).
I would actually suggest sticking with OEM relays, junkyards have more than plenty of them a lot cheaper than any parts store, with a lot higher quality, as those don't fail unless there is a very specific reason for them to do so. Same goes for fuses, I always tend to take some when I am out there.
Hope this helps and best of luck!
Just in case, look for any signs of aftermarket wiring around the car, especially for any aftermarket alarms and such, those can be sitting in the car for years before stating to cause problems, and this one sounds a lot like it.
--I tried uploading a bunch of pictures on here but these forums don't seem very active. It's been over a week and the moderator of this forum hasn't approved my photos so you guys can see them so I don't know what's up with that.
Look through Engine Live Data, see what gets cut out each time the car stalls, look for Misfire Count, Engine RPM, Ignition Timing. Also use a Test Light to check if all the fuses for Injection and Spark are getting power, which may show some hidden alarm as written above.
--I don't have the money to buy a scan tool high quality enough to see ELD.. I'm just going off of YouTube and prayers honestly. Spark Plugs/Coils are good. I unplugged each one one at a time while car was running (saw from a video) and listened for spark. It gets spark on Bank 1... can't really get to Bank 2 at the moment.
The cable should be a little loose when the gas pedal is released, just enough to feel it on the pedal, but not too much, as it will limit how much you can open the throttle. It would frankly be better if it is loose the tight, just in case.
--Okay, I corrected it from what I remember it being. It did have a bit of slack (which is why we messed with it in the first place) and we thought it would set the idle speed higher so it would stop stalling..
There should be plenty of those at the junkyard if you are worried of it sliding out, it's not too complicated to replace. There is a metal lining on the inside of the rubber piece, no matter how tight you crank it, you will not compress the rubber.
--I was just at the Junk Yard today, shame I didn't think of grabbing one. I will have to grab one next time I go just for peace of mind.
While the smaller fan should be active when the A/C is on, it may be a little too cold for for it to be on, as it is also wired through the Temperature sensor on one of the A/C lines. The sensor on the bottom of a radiator is actually a Temperature Switch, it will likely outlast the whole car, never heard of any of them failing, the reason fans kicked in is because it's a --Normally Closed Switch as a Fail Safe function, by disconnecting it you Opened the Circuit, aka turned on the switch.
--I actually grabbed all radiator fan fuses off of two different Toyota Corrola/Camrys today. The big Green Radiator Fan No.1 fuse was exactly the same. I also grabbed a new Fan No.2 fuse even though I just bought one yesterday, still the fans do not come on unless I unplug the temp sensor cable that is at the top of the fan (driver side).
I would actually suggest sticking with OEM relays, junkyards have more than plenty of them a lot cheaper than any parts store, with a lot higher quality, as those don't fail unless there is a very specific reason for them to do so. Same goes for fuses, I always tend to take some when I am out there.
Hope this helps and best of luck!
03-05-23, 05:14 PM
#13
Pole Position
--I don't have the money to buy a scan tool high quality enough to see ELD.. I'm just going off of YouTube and prayers honestly. Spark Plugs/Coils are good. I unplugged each one one at a time while car was running (saw from a video) and listened for spark. It gets spark on Bank 1... can't really get to Bank 2 at the moment.
--I actually grabbed all radiator fan fuses off of two different Toyota Corrola/Camrys today. The big Green Radiator Fan No.1 fuse was exactly the same. I also grabbed a new Fan No.2 fuse even though I just bought one yesterday, still the fans do not come on unless I unplug the temp sensor cable that is at the top of the fan (driver side).
Hope this helps and best of luck!
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
acenase
Performance & Maintenance
22
09-30-13 04:57 PM