Deedra

Hello everyone!

I'm brand new here, and came in the hopes that someone here might have good advice on an issue I am having.

I have an engine from what (i was told) is a 1999 Lexus ES300.
http://i959.photobucket.com/albums/a...3/DSC02134.jpg

I want to try and replace the sensor in my rear header, however, when I research to find out what to replace it with, I have learned that the 1mz is supposed to have two A/F sensors (one in each header) , and one 02 sensor that would be found later down the pipe.

The problem is, that even though my front A/F sensor looks like everyone elses,
the sensor on the rear header looks like an 02 sensor.

Here is a visaul example:
Sensor on my front header looks like this: http://info.rockauto.com/Denso/234-9009_bw.jpg
(you can actually see it in the photo of my engine)

Sensor on my rear header looks like this: http://info.rockauto.com/Denso/234-4215_bw.jpg


All my research thus far has shown me that this is incorrect. The engine was operating fine for awhile though. I only recently developed the P0171, and after spending time hunting a vacuum leak and finding nothing, i decided to replace the valve covers and spark plug tube seals because the leak that they did have, can constitute as a vacuum leak.
however, after doing so and reassembling the intake manifold and throttle body and such, the engine gave a new code, on top of the P0171, it now states P1130 and P1150. And these two new codes, actually effect idle, causing it to bounce a little, and causing my exhaust to be white, visible, rich.

I assumed I interrupted a connection somewhere during reassembly, but I double checked and this is not the case. Upon clearing codes and running the engine again, the 1150 went away, but 1130 remains, as does the ever present 0171.
This is what led me to believe I should try replacing the rear sensor, despite the fact that it looks new. And in turn, leading me to discover that the rear sensor looks different than the front sensor, while all internet research tells me that they should be identical twins.


Hopefully someone here can shed light on this confusion. I'd truly appreciate it, because I am lost. I will pull the sensor today to see if there are any numbers on it that may help me.
I should also note, that when going to autozone to buy valve cover gaskets, the felpro brand for the 1999 Lexus ES300 had gaskets that did not seem to fit, however, finding a felpro box for the toyota avalon, did fit. Leading me to question where this engine actually came from.


"The tale of the unknown A/F sensor" or "The case of the mysterious stranger"

Deedra

i have pulled the sensor from the rear header, and read the numbers along its neck, so here they are:

TOYOTA 89465-17130 ND 065500-3790 5P


I also have images of it and where it came out of, having discovered that it was likely leaking around its metal gasket. perhaps there is a very slight chance that this leak around the sensor is the cause of my P0171 and P1130?

http://i959.photobucket.com/albums/a...3/DSC02162.jpg
http://i959.photobucket.com/albums/a...3/DSC02160.jpg
http://i959.photobucket.com/albums/a...3/DSC02166.jpg

I've googled the part number found on the neck "89465-17130" and cannot seem to find any results, perhaps this sensor is extinct and a replacement has been created?

mitsuguy

iTrader: (2)

leak in the exhaust will cause some weird o2 sensor codes (o2 and a/f sensor both do the same thing essentially, just a little different in the way they report and how they measure)... either way, this is the way you test them - this is for a toyota truck, but it was the quickest, easiest way to find it, and it applies here as well:

http://www.parksoffroad.com/tacomamo...de/cip1130.pdf

the system lean code (p0171) can definitely cause your issue, not sure if P1130 will or not...

just because there is a different way of attaching it doesn't mean it is different - some O2 sensors screw in, some bolt in, some a/f sensors screw in, some bolt in...

Deedra

I use an innova device that only displays the engine code and many tiny icons, including the word f"reeze", so i will go to their website and learn how to use this device to get things such as fuel trim and voltage and stuff to follow the instructions on the pdf you gave me. thank you for showing it.

i will also get a new gasket for the sensor to see if this solves all the problems.
as for A/f and 02 being the same and such, the thing that made it mysterious to me is that everyone else with a 1mz engine seems to have the same identical setup. i seem to be the only one with one flange sensor and one screw in sensor.
but then again i am also the only person ive seen with these aftermarket headers. so thats another variable i suppose.

Bdub215

iTrader: (1)

If this:
http://i959.photobucket.com/albums/a...3/DSC02134.jpg
If this your motor, I'm all to curious as to where the rest of the OBX y-pipe is at? if all of this is on your car, Your cats are gone and your car will throw 02 codes all day long.

but anyway, the sensor your looking for is Denso 234-9009 for the front. the rear is Denso 234-9007
http://www.densoaftermarket.com/cata....php?part=afrs

Deedra

the links you gave seem to refuse to show the item and simply redirect on the site but i googled the part numbers to see, and the rear one you showed is a screw in type sensor. if you look at the photos i showed you, only my front sensor is the screw in type, while the rear sensor is a flange with two 10mm bolts.

you are correct about the cat though, there is no cat. however, this functioned perfectly fine before. the P0171 only came a week ago, and the P1130 came a couple days ago, immediately after replacing the valve cover gaskets.

Steelfan

well, on a "standard engine", the front and rear sensors are identical. They have different part numbers due to the leads being different lengths. I forget which way it goes but they are one-way interchangeable. You can use the one that has the longer lead/plug in place of the one that has the shorter lead/plug but not vice versa. The plug won't reach. When I replaced mine, I unfortunately stripped the threads on the rear manifold. It was a bear to get it re-threaded.

Now, since yours is not "stock" anymore, who knows what you really need on the rear manifold. I did not look at any of your pics. I would imagine you would want an a/f sensor on the rear though to keep your emissions management happy. Does the current "rear" plug have 4 wires or only 2?

Went back and looked at the pics. Either they made mods to the manifold "just because" or they needed to and replaced it with the what you have now. Maybe they did what I did originally (stripped it out) and this was their repair. Either way, looks like it is an A/F sensor with the 4 wires. Looks pretty dirty though. Replace it and make sure you get rid of the leak and go from there.

Deedra

The update as of 10 minutes ago is that 1150 came back, to join the 1130.
as for replacing the rear, i would like to try that but it seems the part number on my rear sensor does not exist anywhere. it says toyota right on the sensor.

"TOYOTA 89465-17130 ND 065500-3790 5P"

Those are all the markings on the sensor. are you certain it is an A/F? i want to identify what i have with certainty and then purchase them immediately. though i still find it a strange coincidence that both sensors would go bad simultainiously, immediately after replacing the valve cover gaskets. i assumed that upon reassembling the intake, i missed a ground wire or something. but i have gone over it multiple times to make sure.

another odd thing about the rear sensor is that its plug seems fitted upside down. the prior owner seems to have shaved off the little plastic rails on the plug, to allow for it to fit upside down. it still snaps in though.

Steelfan

http://www.mandrelbendingsolutions.c...-Flange/Detail

Maybe this adapter will work for ya. Not sure what good the A/F sensors will do though with the Cats removed.

Deedra

i saw something similar to that on a place called lambda or something. i think its a good idea. but im curious, do all 1mz vehicles use the same a/f sensors? lexus, avalon, camry and such?

if the front and rear bank sensors have the same part number regardless of which vehicle, i will more confidently just get said sensors, and the adaptor you have shown me, and give up trying to identify my current strange bank 1 sensor. visually of course, i am assuming my bank 2 sensor is already like everyone elses. but seeing as the 1150 has just returned, to combine with the 1130, i would like to replace both, and pray it was not a simple matter of a bad ground somewhere. (0171 did not seem to return but probably would if i let it run a bit longer)

here are the numbers on my ECU by the way, if it helps shed anymore light:

89661-3T410
175200-2321 12v
Denso

Deedra

the update for now is that i have ordered the denso standard sensors, 234-9009 and 234-9007, as well as that flange adapter you linked me to. it says the thread size is M18x1.5, i hope this is correct for fitting the denso sensor.

i will report the results, and thank you

mitsuguy

iTrader: (2)

A/f sensors or O2 sensors, at least the upstream ones, in front of the cats are responsible for adjusting fuel injection amounts, only the downstream ones, after the cats, care about how well the cat is working... If it is an upstream one we are talking about (in this case, it is), it can cause poor fuel economy, rough running as well a couple other potentials, downstream - has no drivability concerns whatsoever, just emissions...

Deedra

The lack of the third sensor that is further down the pipe does not concern me really. Due to the lack of this third sensor, i throw a code called P0141. Which causes me no harm. The P0171 however, makes me afraid to drive. but did not really effect idle.
but the P1130 and P1150 that have no joined forces with P0171, have now causes very rich and rough idle. more visible smoke that smells more, which probably means the engine is adding way more fuel than before.

I do not know why both sensors would simultainiously go bad simply because i changed the valve cover gaskets, my only assumption was that perhaps during the process of removing the intake manifold, i forgot to replace a ground wire, or disturbed something else in some way.
but i did check everything several times to obsessively be sure to put things back exactly as they were. therefore i am left with having to replace both sensors, despite this uncanny coincidence of timing.

things that were disturbed during the replacement of the valve cover gaskets are:
throttle was separated from intake manifold, intake manifold was separated from engine (but its lower plenum was left untouched). the fuel rail attachement was loosened a tad to be able to twist it very slightly out the way so that my socket could neatly grasp the large nut holding down the driver side of the intake manifold, a tad drop or so of fuel leaked upon doing this, but i immediately tightened it back up. and it does not leak.

the wiring harness was unscrewed from the intake manifold at two points, one at the back right next to the passenger side black support bar, and one on the passenger side of the manifold right near the valve that is controlled by the ACIS.
it was also unscrewed from a hole in the rear valve cover, and lastly, a nut on the driver side of the engine, lower down, which held the harness against the engines side.
then the harness was lifted a bit to be able to neatly slip out the rear valve cover.

the ignition coils had to be removed as well as the plugs on the rear valve cover, and the two little 10mm nuts holding the vacuum assembly to the intake manifold had to be removed.
nothing else has been disturbed. and all grounds were checked after re-assembly, using a small tester light, that only lights up if a circuit can be completed from a 12V source to the ground in question.

gaskets were reused for the throttle and the intake manifold, smoke was used to verify they do not leak.

again, despite carefully reassembling everything exactly as it was before, the result was still:

before replacing valve cover gaskets = P0171
after replacing valve cover gaskets = P0171, P1130, P1150


i am indeed a haunted/cursed man.

Deedra

well, i replaced both sensors with the standard part number sensors for front and rear (2009 and 2007). i got an adapter bung to make the rear sensor fit as suggested.

still getting p1130 and p1150. so i just wasted a couple hundred bucks or so

someone mentioned there could be something wrong with the 02 sensor "circuit"? where can i find this circuit?

Deedra

Im considering wiring the new a/f sensors to the ecu myself, to bypass any faulty bad wire spots or grounds that may exist between the sensors and ecu.

but to do that i need to know the pinout of the ecu, to know exactly where the wires for the sensors go (8 wires in total)

i know that the bank 1 wires are green, red, black, and black with red stripe.
and the bank 2 wires are blue, black, and a pair of twins that are black with white stripe.


i have the actual part number of my ecu, if that would help in finding the proper pinout. my google skills fail me: "TOYOTA 89661-3T410 DENSO 175200-2321"