Hayk

iTrader: (1)

I'm seriously considering taking my 1998 Lexus ES 300 with 230,000 miles on the clock to the racetrack. Talk me out of it, go!

Oro

I don't have to. P.J. O'Roarke did it:

"What's the fastest/best handling car you can drive? One you don't own yourself."

(I paraphrase a bit). Even if your car is as well-maintained as ours, you'll expose the weak point that you've missed and time and mileage has not. I've been to a few driving schools and the skills can be learned on any car; no need to bruise something special for vanity.

Hayk

iTrader: (1)

I totally understand that and I fear of breaking major components on a daily driver that I can't afford to lose time on. Having said that, I want to know how to control my car at its limits, before I ever get into that situation.

Are there places that give out cars for driving schools in the North East?

JetsonES

Install a stiffer rear sway bar if you are serious about this. It's about $150, takes less than an hour to install and will make your car much more balanced with less body roll and plowing. Dollar for dollar I think it is the best mod for these cars besides ELM327 adapters and techstream.

Hayk

iTrader: (1)

Thank you for that information, but I don't think you understand what I'm looking to do. I already have front and rear sway by upgrades, but I'm not looking to race my car on the streets.

Think of it like a dog playing in a park and running through a lake, after a long week - I'm looking to get all my driving enthusiasm out onto a racetrack and learn how to properly control a car in an emergency situation.

Are there any seriously challenging driving schools in the area that you guys could recommend?

atlcal

Look into autocross, an excellent way to learn car control at much more modest speeds, which means safer for you and the car. Going to, or beyond, the limits of traction is much safer, and the penalties for getting it wrong are far less severe. What you learn in autocross readily translates to higher speed track events, if/when you're ready to try something else.

You can search for SCCA events in your area here:

http://www.scca.com/events?categories=solo

Hayk

iTrader: (1)

Thank you, I'll look into AutoCross. I would like an event where they can lend me a test vehicle.

atlcal

Part of the purpose of an autocross is to learn the limits of you and your car. While I'm used to competing in my modified Miata, I was pleasantly surprised at how predictable a completely stock, relatively high mileage 3ES handled.

I'd really suggest you try it in your own car, it will make you a better driver, knowing how you and your car will react in panic situation. Having good car control has saved me countless times over the years, you have no idea how much you will learn.

Hayk

iTrader: (1)

Thank you the kind words, it sounds like we have very similar interests.

I actually just thought of picking up an early 90's Mazda Miata to go AutoCrossing and to have fun in a minimalist, manual transmission, roadster, last night. I would still like to keep the ES as a comfortable daily.

speedkar9

Sometimes I reach my limits right on the street.... taking a left turn a bit too fast causes some crazy understeering on my 4ES, even my passengers can detect.

Hayk

iTrader: (1)

I agree, I would like to replicate this type of condition in a safe environment in order to learn how to avoid it/do it better. It's hard to learn something when you only experience it once a week or even less. In addition, you can practice a wet road condition and/or a skidpad for controlling a spin out. Front wheel drive cars can be very capable in the right hands.

Hayk

iTrader: (1)

I'm going to seriously look into bringing my car to an AutoCross event and see how it goes. I like this idea of a relatively safe environment to practice car control.

atlcal

I've been autocrossing for over a decade, and have seen everything from purpose built race cars to mom's Volvo wagon, so there's absolutely no reason why you can't roll up in your ES and have a good time. Honestly, learning to drive your own car at and beyond the limit is far more useful than learning to drive a purpose built race car that you'll likely never sit in and drive again.

Plus, it's relatively cheap fun, and lots of good folks who are very helpful and enthusiastic.

Power6

Auto-x: yes absolutely! It is pretty easy on the car, and things like brakes and tires you can get away with almost anything since the runs are short and speeds are low.

Track Day: Don't do it with the ES. While it is true you should not let what you currently drive hold you back...a HPDE is awfully hard on the car, if you want to work up to your limits that is, and if you want to do a track day that is what you want to do. Until you drive a road course you have no idea what working up to the limits of the car are. A car like the ES, you would need to at least prep the brakes with racing fluid and pads, and mount some tires that can handle the track. Even then you might overheat the brakes after a few hot laps, so you'll spend most of your track time managing brake fade and saving the tires. And then you will realize why sports cars ride so hard (the opposite of the Lexus ride) even the most bone jarring street car feels soft when you get it up to speed on the course. The Lexus would be a floaty handful at high speed

Aside from car choice, a little contrast to what these events are like: A track day needs a well prepped car and costs $$$, but gives you maybe 1-1.5 hours of total track time hot lapping. Auto-x is cheap and easy, but you stand around all day for maybe 5 minutes of track time. A track day is practice, you are learning and it takes a lot of time to move up through the groups, learn how to drive fast with other cars, passing etc. and if you wanted to race, eventually get a comp license. At auto-x you can jump right in and you are racing first day. You might not win, but you are timed and competing to win from your very first event.

atlcal

Totally agree w/ Power6. Once you've decided you want to go past what you can do on autocross circuits, and want to move to a track day, it's time to think about a different car. Most road courses are going to have much higher speeds and far more braking than any autocross course, and I've always subscribed to the axiom that you "Track what you can afford to walk away from.". If this is your only car or one that you depend on, I would never take it to a dedicated road course. I've seen too many people wad up a car and then be stuck fixing it out of pocket, or worse, still having to make payments on a car that is pretty much totalled.

There's plenty of good starter cars for track days for relatively small money. A Miata makes a great starting point, lots of them out there, light (which means less load/smaller tires/brakes), and well balanced. A roll cage and/or hardtop are not terrribly expensive, and they're very durable. Might look into the SCCA PDX program, they often have a couple of sessions at a track for small $, often on a race weekend when they have to kill some time between club races. You'll get high speed track time with very limited passing (only in designated areas w/ a point around), and an instructor. Pretty safe, and while a couple 15-20 minute sessions may not sound like much, it's more than enough to wear you and most street tire/brake combinations out.

Autox is not necesarily stand around all day. Here in Atlanta, we've had AM/PM sessions for probably 10 or more years. Work one half of the AM/PM session, drive the other half. You either show up and drive/work in the AM or PM only, so you're only putting 4-5 hours into an event, instead of an entire day. I am sure other regions have adopted similar strategies, if there is high enough turnout. The key is, you're learning valuable skills that will translate well if/when you move up to a full on track day.