VicES30002

Hello All,

I just register today and REALLY impressed by the information posted on various forums, specifically on ES 300 forum.

I have Lexus 2002 ES300 bought in 2001 and have 79715 miles.

I NEVER did "drain and refill" or "flush" the transmission fluid. I checked the condition of the ATF at the nearest mechanic shop yesterday and I was told that the ATF is good.

Since, I NEVER did the transmission fluid change before, I have following questions.

1) How far can I go without changing the ATF ?

2) If you think that I MUST do ATF change asap, what method should I use?

Shall I just "drain and refill" or flush? What kind of flush (I was told there are 2 types of flush - one with the chemicals and one without chemicals).

Will you please let me know how will it cost?

3) Do you EVER recommend Flushing ATF using any chemicals such as BG ?

4) If I just do "drain & refill" NOW, how often shall I do the same in the future?

5) If I just do Total flush" NOW, how often shall I do in the future?

Thanks a LOT.

Vic Ho

01LEXPL

iTrader: (10)

different schools of thought on the issue.

Personally, my 2001 did 108k graceful miles on the original fluid, and only at this mileage it was brownish.

This is the true indicator of the trans fluid, if it is still red, then you are fine.

Second, there is the oil issue.

I am not sure which motor/trans your car uses, but some have to use only ATF Type IV from toyota, others claim it is 'safe' to go ahead with an off the shelf replacement like mobil one synthetic [where your current oil is traditional], as it is really popular on here.

However i will provide my input now for your consideration...

I called around and read up on different forums [oil oriented, and toyota truck/car related] regarding the 'switch' to synthetic.

I was under the assumption it was 'better' in the car to have synthetic, blah blah blah, but the thing is, i did not want to risk it personally with a higher mileage car @ 108k miles... So i went with OEM traditional oil in the trans as to not *risk* the few percent chance of failure...

Why?

Well research shows, that the cars respond just fine for a little while, some last 20k some lat 40k with zero issues, others well, they encountered issues with the change. Some said they would not have done it, as there 'was no benefit to do so'...

At the end of the day, some will say and add that 'oh it is fine X many cars/people have done it' i took the 'if it aint broke don;'t fix it approach', as the car ran flawlessly on regular oil for 108k miles, on the same oil, and so it should continue to do so on OEM spec oil [i actually even bought the oil from Toyota! lol]

One issue that i personally killed the deal for me, is the fact that the transmission will always have little particles of metal shavings in it, this is inevitable. So the OEM oil did a fine job of keeping things in order so that is what i did. Now the potential issues arise when you do a drain & fill with synthetic oil... Those little shavings can get stuck in the veins and tiny passages of the trans and mix that with the remaining traditional oil and you have clogged passages ... not good. Another thing is to avoid the *potential* above scenario you have to be wasteful and should do a drain and fill after the initial 'conversion' to synthetic over the following 3 weeks, to fully drain it of the conventional oil. I don't know about some of y'all out there, but i thought it was asinine to buy a crate of oil and to lose the time to have it drain and fill 3 times...

Next, the 'drain & fill' is what Toyota will suggest & call for, but it is fair to just change the filter once in the air, since it takes 2 mins longer to get the old filter out and a new one in...

one more thing, i am not familiar with your car and engine, but my dad's RX330 from 2004 has the 3.3 liter engine & trans and IT DID NOT have a Filter!!! We went and i am scratching my head looking for a filter and called Lexus and Toyota and both said those motors DO NOT HAVE ONE! So it may as well be simply a drain & fill in your case!

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To recap as i know my post is garbled and all over the place:

1) How far can I go without changing the ATF ?

Depends on the color; visual check and/or any noticeable shifting problems unusual driving. I got 108k out of mine lol, some people suggest that you should do it in 20-30k intervals no matter what, but i think these oils are developed enough to the point that you just do the visual check and look yourself and note the color. VW/Audi cars NEVER have to change this fluid for the life of the car...

2) If you think that I MUST do ATF change asap, what method should I use?

Don't have to change ASAP, see above.

Shall I just "drain and refill" or flush? What kind of flush (I was told there are 2 types of flush - one with the chemicals and one without chemicals).

If you 'really' want to be that preventative to do it then, do as i suggest above, drain & fill and once you are in there might as well have the filter changed no matter what, like i said, might as well if you are changing it all anyways!

Will you please let me know how will it cost?

A filter/gasket on the 2001 3.0 motor was 45$ for me [and that was CAD, so you guys might have it cheaper]

Oil - subjective, depends where you go and what you buy. I got my stuff at 'dealer cost' since i know a few people

***DO NOT refer to the manual for the amount of oil*** IT IS NOT CORRECT*** Yes, the manual is WRONG, you need more than it states. My car called for 3.8L, i ended up needing closer to 5 Liters! to be at the right level, i had enough to fill it to manual numbers and it was 'low' on the dipstick.

3) Do you EVER recommend Flushing ATF using any chemicals such as BG ?

No. I read much on this, and it does not do anything beneficial, if anything it may harm it. I suggest googling for more info on this particular substance/product(s) and what they can do. [if i recall i refered to bobistheoilguy.com]

4) If I just do "drain & refill" NOW, how often shall I do the same in the future?

See point one, visual check and/or any noticeable shifting problems unusual driving.

5) If I just do Total flush" NOW, how often shall I do in the future?

If you do it now, i wouldn't worry too much about it for the life of the car. Like i said, i got 30k miles out of the car issue free on the original oil [bought with ~75k on it]

Cheers,
Mike

P.s. Sorry about my long *** post... I wanted to inform you as best as possible before some internet mechanics chime in and fill your head with some potentially stupid and useless info...

llcoolpass

dont flush, just pan drop style / drain and refill every 30K
use the latest ATF. your current fluid is probably ok, but its not fully removed in 30Kdrain+fill, so just do the drain and fill at your earliest convenience, then again in 30K. called fractional dillution. you should change your filter too if in question and clean the magnets if in question.

Lexusfreak

As mentioned in previous threads & on LOC, I do regular 'drain & fills' every two years or 30k miles (some here do them even more frequently).

If you have never done any tranny service, I would highly suggest you do....that fluid has been in there for 8+ years now & I would do several drain & fills over the next month or so...not a total flush.

How far can you go without changing your ATF?...when the tranny fails...I'd say you've reached your limit.

Your 5 speed auto takes Toyota Type IV fluid...or equivilant...I use Amsoil Synthetic ATF myself & have for years.

If you have a reliable mechanic, just bring him the fluid & pick a tranny plug gasket up at your local Lexus / Toyota dealer...they are about a buck or less.

Good luck.

mmlex1987

I am on board with the 30K intervals as well.

PlatES300

iTrader: (1)

quick question...I have a 1997 ES and was wondering how many quarts I needed to change the tranny fluid. thanks!

Mp0wer

VicES30002, did you ever get around to changing your tranny oil, I just wanted to know if the 2002 does in fact have a filter and how many quarts you needed...

SilverSled

I've converted a number of 100k+ mile trannies to Amsoil and never had a problem. The trouble you have heard about with some synthetic oils is related to sludge build up in engines (dyno oil). Sludge covers old cork cracked gaskets - which forgives the brittle nature. High detergent engine oil (most, eg Mobil1) washes away the sludge (that wouldn't have been there if non-dyno oil was used in the first place, any that is). Washed away sludge reveals the cracks and hence leaks. Amsoil fwiw has chemical additives that help resoften/ swell old rubber/ cork gaskets, preventing any leaks. I am not selling it here just stating facts.

ATF however is already highly detergent, even dyno versions. There is no sludge period.

Procedure I use to flush trannies-

1- Drop pan, replace filter, reinstall pan.

2- Fill pan back up w/ fresh synthetic AFT.

3- Look for your tranny cooler lines, disconnect one, either one.

4- Place catch pan under that hose.

5- Turn on car, run w/ someone else watching that you catch the fluid. Run 30 sec or so.

6- Fill up tranny pan thru fill tube till full again.

7- Repeat until fluid coming out hose is brand new. You'll tell the color difference immediately.

8- DO NOT let car pump out ALL tranny fluid. Tranny destruction will result. If pan always has fluid in it, you can use the tranny pump to pump out all old fluid w/o trouble.

9- Reconnect hose, you are done. (check for leaks etc, and fix if you left something loose.


FYI- just dropping pan and refilling pan will leave the majority of the old fluid in the tranny and in the torque converter. You might as well fill half a drinking cup from the urinal and half from bottled distilled water! Replace all to do it right.