Digital Photography Discuss how to take the best digital photos of your Lexus & other subjects

Z6 and Z7 by Nikon

 
Old 08-31-18, 10:47 PM
  #16  
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can't really follow your logic there but i think the aps-c market is all but dead. phone cameras have and are killing it.
Well, that's basically what I'm saying - FF nibbles into APS-C from the top, 1 inch and phones from the bottom. What keeps APS-C going for the time being is that for $500 you get a lot of camera/IQ.
The D500 for example will likely see less sales than the D300 back in its day - Z6 and D750 are in the same price range these days so more choice (and those are both FF).
However the trend within the mirrorless/dSLR (as opposed to compact cameras) market segment is a) bigger sensors and b) mirrorless.
Interesting as well: DX lenses launched in 2018 - none so far / 2017 - one / 2016 - four

right but do the nikons do any better than the sonys that have been around a while already?
Do they need to?
I don't think there are that many gear heads out there that change their systems just because one brand does something 'better' than another - in most cases the differences are small to begin with and within a few years the other big brands will usually catch up.

What is important is that in allows existing Nikon customers go mirrorless within the brand as Allen said - plus new customers have a choice between Sony and Nikon - and Canon (very soon).
And that's where the 'humongous' adapter kicks in, it allows the use of all the existent lenses, which is perfect for Nikon customers.
There are millions of Nikon lenses out there in use and those users are more important than those who switch the system just because one brand does something better at some point.

I'm one of them and I'm happy that there is an adapter which seems a) to work really well, according to first reports, and b) is a bargain.
If I get the body with the adapter I have instantly a full set of lenses I can use. One by one I will replace them when new lenses I like are coming out.
And that will be rather fast - within 3 years there will be 23 lenses to choose from!

My main setup is
most used:
16-35 f4
28 1.8
middle use:
60 2.8 macro
70-200 2.8
least used:
85 1.8
50 1.4

At first I will likely only get the new 14-30mm f4, scheduled for next year.
No hurry to replace the 50 and 85, don't use them often enough.
Next important would be for me a tele, preferably a 70-200 f4 (with today's ISO I don't need f2.8, a bit lighter and cheaper is always welcome).

So bottom line is there's no hurry to buy lenses, and I dun care if the adapter is 'humongous' - it's NOT bigger than my previous setup, that was the mirror box there...
You can't make the thing shorter or narrower, and I don't wanna win a beauty contest with it for the prettiest camera, it's a tool.
I don't think the idea is that you get a Z camera and then buy a whole lot of F mount lenses and use them with the adapter.

One thing I wouldn't do however, and that's buying non-S lenses from now on.
Nikon seems to know that, too, that's why they will be churning out 23 new lenses within 3 years.

Interesting is the S lens roadmap as well. I'm pretty sure they have taken a look into their best selling lenses for users of bodies in the Z6/Z7 price level. 1.8 primes first, along with 2.8 zooms and some f4 zooms. No 70-300 4.5-5.6 or 70-200 f4 so far but then there are still 3 empty slots for 2020. And the fancy 1.4 or 1.2 primes are coming later on. Very happy with this decision.
One of the things I don't like so much about the Sony FF lenses is the price tag of quite a few options ...
Out of 26 lenses about 12 are definitely in the 'luxury' department, more than what I typically like to spend for a lens (apart from the 70-200 f4).
Leaves about 12 in my 'favorite' list. That's definitely enough for me to pick a suitable set up, but by no means a massive choice.
Bottom line is that a suitable Sony setup would cost me about $8000.
Nope, not going to happen for me to spend that much within a year.

If I spread it out over 4 years or so, well, there will be plenty of Nikon lenses to choose from.
Difference is that right from the beginning I will get a full range thanks to the 'monstrous' adapter.
Bring it on.
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Old 08-31-18, 11:05 PM
  #17  
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I'm surprised about is sticking to the 3:2 format on cameras... i think a wider format would be better. i know, we can crop or camera can block it out, but still
OMG, I'm thankful that they stick to that 3:2 format!!!

I'm not a video shooter so TV-wide is not my first priority. For movies it's another story, but I buy a still camera first.
16:9 cropped at 38MP is not too bad anyway...

As a still shooter I like 3:2 as it is great for both horizontal and vertical shooting.
Reason why I don't like 16:9 so much is that for vertical it's too long for my taste.
Plus in horizontal it's maybe great for skylines and panos, but not that great for a lot of other stuff (portraits, street life).
4:3 goes the other way in my opinion, it's getting too close to each other.
Nope, I do like the harmony of 3:2.
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Old 08-31-18, 11:30 PM
  #18  
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And here's the Sony cell phone snap for the week:

2. Democracy Monument


Last edited by tools4fool; 08-31-18 at 11:44 PM.
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Old 09-01-18, 01:16 PM
  #19  
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Originally Posted by Allen K View Post
I got ~3200 shots out of a single battery with the a9 last week
that's a lot of shots for a week!

Originally Posted by tools4fool View Post
Well, that's basically what I'm saying - FF nibbles into APS-C from the top, 1 inch and phones from the bottom. What keeps APS-C going for the time being is that for $500 you get a lot of camera/IQ.
right, i only see someone buying an aps-c today if they're serious about learning photography and on a budget which is a smaller and smaller market.

I don't think there are that many gear heads out there that change their systems just because one brand does something 'better' than another - in most cases the differences are small to begin with and within a few years the other big brands will usually catch up.
nikon and canon lost a LOT of DSLR customers to sony in the last few years who switched and aren't going back so i completely disagree. and probably many who had aps-c and 'prosumer' nikon/canons (750/850/5D/6D, etc.) who wanted a second body ended up getting a sony rather than another nikon/canon. and the monster cameras (d5,1dxmkii) became only for a tiny tiny and shrinking minority of high end sports and glamour shooters.

even as a canon fan it's obvious sony's products moved the market in their direction and nikon's new mirrorless cameras are at best a way to stop the bleeding.

I'm one of them and I'm happy that there is an adapter which seems a) to work really well, according to first reports, and b) is a bargain.
$249 u.s. is a bargain? but looks like a good adapter, functionally, yes.

My main setup is
most used:
16-35 f4
28 1.8
middle use:
60 2.8 macro
70-200 2.8
least used:
85 1.8
50 1.4

At first I will likely only get the new 14-30mm f4, scheduled for next year.
No hurry to replace the 50 and 85, don't use them often enough.
Next important would be for me a tele, preferably a 70-200 f4 (with today's ISO I don't need f2.8, a bit lighter and cheaper is always welcome).
we have similar setup but i have less lenses...
16-35/f4IS
24-105/4IS
70-200/f4IS
50 1.4

anyway, don't get me wrong, i'm glad nikon is finally getting into ff mirrorless - competition is a good thing.
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Old 09-01-18, 07:23 PM
  #20  
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$249 u.s. is a bargain?
Yup si, what else do you get for $250 these days in the FF department?
GPS unit $310
Microphone $180
Battery (D4) $220
Battery Grip D800/810 $420

I'm glad it doesn't cost $400 or $500...wouldn't have been surprised...
Btw, $150 if you get it with your pre-order.

But other prices are indeed a bit worrying:

50 1.8 - $600 (G lens $220)
35 1.8 - $850 (G lens $520)
24-70 4.0 - $1000

There's definitely a steep increase in lens prices for this new system.
This is one more reason why I might keep the lenses I rarely use longer. Much , much longer...as in not replacing them.
For the few times I use my 85mm and 50mm I might as well just keep them with the converter.

On the other hand maybe Nikon is planning to introduce cheaper lens series in the future.
Those 1.8 lenses are coming along with D750/D850 equivalent body in terms of price. The 2.8 zoom series is coming soon, too.
So will the 1.2 and 1.4 'gold' series at one point, pretty sure about that (The Noct is the first one).

However looking into the future we should see mirrorless FF for under $1500 and even $1000 (in years to come - probably after Sony did it first....).
Maybe they come up with a '2.0' series then?
Canon has an EF-M 22mm (35mm in FF eqv) f2.0 for example, Sony an 28mm f2 or something like that.
(There are rumors for an Canon EF-M 32mm F/1.4 STM (gives 50mm FF eqv), btw, a good sign that they keep this line.)

To broaden the question - what will Nikon do with their cheaper segment?
Canon has got the EF-M mount, for APS-C.
What will Nikon do?
Use this new Z mount for APS-C sensors based mirrorless bodies as well? And make an 'SX' lens series for it? Or another entirely new system?
Or...what?
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Old 09-01-18, 08:01 PM
  #21  
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we have similar setup but i have less lenses...
16-35/f4IS
24-105/4IS
70-200/f4IS
50 1.4
Yep, rather similar.
I'm more a wide junkie, so the 16-35mm is my default zoom and that's my one lens setup (instead of mid range zoom).
If I go two lenses I bring the 16-35mm plus the 85mm. Or 16-35 plus 28 if low light city. That's good enough for light weight casual shooting.
Serious photo trips bring add the 60 and 70-200.

I like primes, could do with a complete prime setup, if there were affordable options. 16 - 20 - 28 - 105 macro - TC
Problem is that the 16mm affordable wide prime is not going to happen...apart from using something like an Irix 15mm.
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Old 09-03-18, 11:30 AM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by tools4fool View Post
Yup si, what else do you get for $250 these days in the FF department?
my favorite small flash for $179!
Amazon Amazon

GPS unit $310
Microphone $180
Battery (D4) $220
Battery Grip D800/810 $420
yup, those are some insane prices.

gps - my 5DMkIV has it built in. i never use it though.

microphone - mine was $68
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00EDMHLEE/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00EDMHLEE/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

battery - even canon's own for mine are only $64
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00NI3CSIS/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00NI3CSIS/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

grip - i always get the linkdelight one (or amazon) that's half or less the price and identical or more features - $88
Amazon Amazon

Originally Posted by tools4fool View Post
I'm more a wide junkie, so the 16-35mm is my default zoom and that's my one lens setup (instead of mid range zoom).
yes, similar preference. i recently made a big mistake only taking my 24-105 on a vacation. wish i'd only taken my 16-35.
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Old 09-14-18, 11:05 PM
  #23  
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We can now add the $400 drop-in filter adapter to the insane prices - and the vanilla $100 one to the bargain list.
Heck, it's so cheap I might get one anyway - even if I don't have any Canon glass or bodies...

Here the latest Sony file, taken in Laos last weekend:

3. Buddha Colors
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