Vdrummer9

My son drives a 2011 CT200h with approximately 160k miles. He is meticulous about his maintenance. About 6 weeks ago, he had his oil changed at our local dealership. Last week he was driving across New Mexico and instantly, all sorts of lights came on and his engine quit. After waiting 3 hours in desert for tow truck to arrive, we had it towed to dealership in Albuquerque. We learned the engine was seized and apparently had no oil in it. We were told they had to add 4 quarts of oil to run the diagnostic and there was no evidence of leaks (particularly around the oil filter or oil plug). The service tech mentioned a service bulletin mentioning something about the possibility of the car burning up to a quart of oil every 1000 miles. My local dealership claims they filled up the car with oil properly and that the car likely just burned all it's oil and caused the motor to seize. No oil pressure or low oil lights ever came on. We have not seen any evidence of 'oil burning' previously with this car. My son did mention an "oil service req'd" notice popped up on his information panel (which we assumed indicated the service technician just didn't reset the oil change meter).

We're a Lexus family and have owned 4 Lexus's and have been very happy with the cars and the service from our local dealership. I was a bit surprised by the response from our local dealership and believe I'm in for quite a battle.

Questions: 1) has anyone had a similar experience? 2) has anyone dealt with this "oil burning" issue? 3) has anyone had success or advice dealing with similar issues?

Any help is greatly appreciated.

Dave

spiral

if you spend 3 seconds over at priuschat.com this exact discussion will present itself. it happens A LOT! well, maybe not the engine seizing, but definitely the oil consumption part. Your 2011, with high mileage, is prime suspect. If you read the manual, Lexus says that 1 quart ever 600 miles is expected (actually printed in the manual)...but they did up that and the revised spec is that it shouldn't burn more than 1 quart every 1200 miles. There is a very specific oil consumption test protocol that they should follow. I'll look it up and post shortly. Our 2012 didn't seem to burn oil for 203k miles, got a new engine and it burns a quart every 2k miles (not enough for toyota to care).

yeldogt

How many miles since the oil change ?

spiral

here is the procedure i promised earlier.

Vdrummer9

3000 miles since last oil change. Dealership provided date, time, and amount of oil added 4.5 quarts. Thanks

Vdrummer9

Thanks for the TSB info. Dealer referenced it also, but i couldn’t find it. Very helpful. This seems like a major flaw that dealer should mention when CT is in for service. I guess my situation isn’t as much as a fluke as I originally thought. I’m hopeful Lexus customer service will provide some assistance, but won’t hold my breath. Thanks for the helpful information.

lexusrus

Sorry to hear about your unfortunate incident ☹️.

I've always checked my oil dip stick at least every other fill up at the gas station. I first pop the hood all the way up and then go gas the car up which will take several minutes. This will usually give it enough time for the engine oil to settle down to the drain pan to check oil level properly.

I do it even if the car is "brand new".

In the HOT New Mexico (or anywhere the ambient temperature is HOT. I consider hot when the ambient temperature is above 90 degrees F), it is IMPERATIVE that you check. Also need to check tire pressures to make sure all four tires are at recommended psi when COLD.

Our last Lexus 2000 LX470 (bought new) had 280K+ miles when we traded it in for another brand new LX570. I've always checked the engine oil levels at each fill up. As matter of fact, for those of you who are old enough to remember back in the old days most gas stations were FULL SERVICE where they actually checked your engine oil levels and etc. I think now only the state of NJ got mandatory FULL SERVICE gas stations (by law?).

As a car ages, it becomes even more important to keep an eye on ALL fluids.

One thing I DO NOT LIKE on the CT200h is that there is NO OIL PRESSURE gauge as found in the LX570 (I have both the LX570 and the CT200h). With an oil pressure gauge, one would have known (if one is paying attention) bc the oil pressure would have been low or non-existent due to little or no oil in the engine.

Lwerewolf

The thing that's most often discussed on priuschat (the ct200h is basically a 3rd gen prius, engine-wise), is the EGR clogging up, leading to all sorts of funny issues, including burning oil, blowing head gaskets, rough idling, whatnot. Not sure how a clogged EGR leads to burning oil but anyways. General recommendations are to clean (and/or replace, if necessary) the EGR components and intake manifold (accumulates oil for some reason, shouldn't need replacement) at some interval (say, 100k miles) and to install an oil catch can.

Does his maintenance schedule involve weekly/per-travelled-interval check of fluid levels? You might've missed the issue developing, if you were relying on blue smoke and the likes.

I wonder how the engine has seized without lighting up the red oil pressure light. Shouldn't really ever happen unless a line leading to a bearing was clogged.. but that doesn't really happen with regular oil changes.

What kind of "diagnostics" did they run on it? Tried starting the engine, did start the engine, noises, pressure, a look at the bearings (pan drop), etc?

spiral

The oil/egr is a compound issue. In the pre-2015 models, the oil ring on the piston was poorly designed which will clog easily and will eventually allow oil particulates to pass through the PCV, which dumps directly into the intake manifold. As the air is drawn in, it picks up the oil and dumps it in the chamber. Some of it gets burned, some of it passes to the exhaust, some back through the ERG. Since the cooler does it's job to cool the exhaust, so does the oil in it which becomes extremely sticky latching itself to the fins of the cooler. so on and so forth until the cooler is completely clogged........i could keep going on the process, but i won't.

The oil catch can is installed between the pcv and intake manifold, which keeps a good amount of oil out of the exhaust keeping the EGR cleaner and operating as intended.

however, another thing to note, is that in the CT manual, it specifically states that the normal consumption rate is 1.1 qts in 600 miles. That's a lot of oil lost! They did update that rate to 1 qt in 1200 miles. So for a normal 5k mile oil change interval...you would have no oil left by the time the change was required. Moral of the story, check your oil frequently. I usually top it off at 3k miles and try to land my oil change at 1/4 above low level (just so i'm not wasting fresh oil). I also purchased genuine toyota 0w-20 oil in bulk (at $4.41/qt). So far it's working out nicely to just add a bit of oil once I get home from work.

yeldogt

I would get Toyota/ Lexus corporate involved after you work through the dealer ... especially since you are a Lexus family. If this was GM -- I would say "forget it" .. but, Lexus is truly a different company. Especially since the service was done at the dealer.

While the old 600miles quart rule still hangs around from when cars used oil -- everybody understand when you get anywhere near this .. something is wrong.

The reason I say to get corporate involved -- Lexus dealers don't see these problems ..... there are no where near the number of CT's out there vs Prius. The Toyota dealers are more understanding of the problem. When I made appointment for our 15 CT's to go in for the intake problem, service did not know what I was talking about -- I brought in the service bulletin and told them I wanted it fixed even with no code showing (the intake is also responsible for the rough start in cold weather). I also told them I wanted the intake tube checked and if dirty to please report back as it was the start of the cooler problem.

When the EGR system is part clogged -- our Prius did use oil. As our cars aged further this oil use diminished as the EGR system further clogged .... eventually it was not working. The EGR system has a cooler -- this cooler uses engine coolant around a matrix to remove temp from exhaust ..... you don't want hot exhaust being sent to the heads for obvious reasons.

Our first cars were 2011 Prius .... we noticed the greater oil usage around 120k .. and it did come on quickly. The cars went from using no oil in 10k ... to maybe 1/2 quart in 3k ... this did increase somewhat ...... after we understood what was going on and replace the valve/cooler and cleaned out the tube and intake ... the cars went back to using very little oil. Maybe a quart in 10k -- but they now had 200k on the engines.

I get that Toyota changed some rings and some swear by the oil catch can .... when the EGR system is working -- the cars don't use oil. The oil catch can seems like a reasonable item as it may do something .... but obvious if you are going 10k using a quart of oil -- what's to catch. Also -- the intake will trap oil at it's lowest point anyway.

lexusrus

Yes, Check you oil dip stick often. I check it at least every other gas refill at the gas station and before every "long distance" trip of more than 30 miles or if the car was sitting around for more than a few days. It only takes literally a minute (30 seconds if you are fast and steady) or less.

lexusrus

Please do not get offended by the following. It is what it is.

At what point in mileage/years old would one consider a "car", any car, OUT OF MANUFACTURER'S responsibility? I mean in reality, nobody really should buy a car and expect it to run trouble free FOREVER.

I know the general public expects Toyota/Lexus to last much longer trouble free vs say, a GM product. I totally get that.

So the question is at some 160K miles on a CT200h, is the manufacturer STILL responsible for that car to continue to run trouble free FOREVER? YES, if one continues to "replace failed parts", the car can theorically run FOREVER. This is where it crosses into the realm of "maintenance".

Also when "maintenance" costs MORE THAN what the car is worth, then one has crossed into the land of "car replacement".

The European cars crosses into the land of "car replacement" way sooner in terms of mileage and years bc maintenance AND depreciation costs are much higher than the Toyota/Lexus counterparts.

Personally I would not get too upset in this case if Toyota/Lexus refused to help me out. But I would be upset if this failure occurred within the warranty (or extended warranty if "L Certified") period. The OP's failure occurred at some 160K miles.

BTW, I do not work for Toyota/Lexus. I'm not in the automotive industry either. I just like Toyota/Lexus products.

yeldogt

Lexusrus: I agree .. nothing is forever. But, something did happen -- is it possible the car all of a sudden used all it's oil in 3k .. Yes. Is it also possible that Lexus failed to properly fill it .. yes.

Lexus is not responsible for sudden oil use at the OP miles .... most manufacturers would say "pound sand". You should be checking it ... etc. But -- he had it serviced at the dealer .. and it was not using oil. Lexus has been known to help. Not all ,, but some. Typically the dealer gets his labor.

As to when to replace a car -- go down this road all the time. I have both business and personal cars - many. I keep my cars for a long time .. I'm also a maintenance nut. My cars get detailed and fixed. So what to do with an otherwise perfect ES when it needs a new transmission at 200k .. what's it worth not fixed (not much). I figure if you can sell the car in the future for 1/2 the fix .. it's worth doing. With most Lexus vehicles it's no where near that. It's always worth fixing a maintained Lexus

My trusty(perfect) 2002 MB W210 wagon's transmission died -- 150k. What's the car worth? Maybe 5k to someone who really wants a wagon -- worthless with a bad transmission. $3800 to fix, I figure it this way ...... can I buy a car as good for $3800? no .... and I know mine is reliable. Can I sell it any day of the week in a year for 2k .. yes. So, I have a car for a year that costs me 2k.

Now -- I have many cars. So my wagon example above is not my only car. I'm not driving it across the country . At some point you have to trade out when you only have one car. Although -- I had one of the original Lexus sedans that I loved and so hated to get rid of -- I did drive that long distance way past 200k

lexusrus

Yes, all possibilities you mentioned are possible. But after some 3K miles it is just hard to point fingers at the Lexus dealership.

All I'm saying is ALL mechanical moving parts will fail at some point even with diligent maintenance.

Our previous 2000 LX470 had some 280K+ miles when we traded in for a new LX570. We traded in not bc we were having any problems with it. We traded it in bc two main reasons. One was we figured at 280K+ trouble free miles and meticulous maintenance......it's about time bc statistically it is kind of like a ticking time boxb. Second reason was it lacked Bluetooth and the other techy stuff. BTW, we did drive the LX 470 from SoCal to the Grand Canyon in the high summer heat both on road and long runs through the desert OFF ROAD before we traded it in. No problems. And it did not burn any oil. And yes, I checked the oil dip stick at every gas fill up. I even carried with me extra quarts of motor oil, engine coolant, emergency belt repair kit, duck tape, and tools just in case.

Same goes for our old Volvo 960 4 door sedan. We sold it at some 180K miles. Now, that was a car needed a lot of TLC during its warranty period where it was a constant back to the Volvo dealership op for us. At one point even the Volvo dealership suggested we just trade it in for a new one!!! We kept it after the warranty and lucky for us, most of the bugs were worked through and fixed. At 180K miles we thought we will get ride of it while it's running like a charm.

Then there were our MB SLK's. One was a lower trim SLK280. The other was a top trim SLK55 AMG model. When both got to some 60K miles range and way after the warranty had ran out we traded both in. Although we never had ANY troubles with either one, I had a hunch that statically speaking these two MB's will not fare as well as the LX470 we had.

Can't emphasize enough about checking the oil dip stick often. The first two "free services" after I bought my RCF, the Lexus dealership OVERFILLED the engine oil BOTH TIMES!!!

yeldogt

Yes I agree -- I'm an oil checker. But, I'm also older and from a time when cars used more oil ... you had to check.