Remember in the 1970s during the oil crisis, when the Detroit Big Three were still pushing out underpowered gas-guzzling land yachts, while an innovative little company known as Toyota (among other Japanese disruptors) came by and ate their market share overnight? And how in response, rather than actually try to compete with them (not that they even could with embarrassments like the Pinto), the Big Three instead lobbied to remove/limit the Japanese competition.

 

BTW @mmarshall just in case you think I am making up these numbers, here is Toyotas published numbers directly from Toyota (see page 2 for hybrids)

https://s3.amazonaws.com/toyota-cms-...rt%20FINAL.pdf

And here is a link to Tesla's published numbers from their public disclosures:

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/01/02/tesl...n-numbers.html

 

hypothetically if everyone today in the world who owns a car gets to chose between turning their car to an ICE or EV at no additional cost, you would probably get at most a 20% conversation rate to EV due to factors from personal preference to constraints outside of their control.

Which still leaves ICE/Hybrids as a 80% addressable market.

No one knows the saturation point for EV at a global level.

 

This is why Toyota needs to pull up their boot straps.

 

I think Tesla has proven otherwise. I believe that if everyone got behind the wheel of an EV for 1 hour, a majority would never want to get back in an ICE. I could be wrong, but I'm saying that as someone who has owned and driven lots of cars over 30 years, including cars like the LC500, RCF, Mustang GT, Dodge Charger (RT and SRT), and even a Huracan in 2017 (rented it in Dubai for 2 days). BTW, I still love ICE, but am now addicted to EV's

 

This video actually points out some of the great attributes of some Lexus models that will be going away. Naturally aspirated V6, real buttons, mechanical shifter. Some of the reasons I just picked up a 22 RX 350 Luxury and a 23 IS 350 F Sport Handling package. Other reasons I picked these, having a spare tire, Mark Levinson with cd player (it really sounds great), eight speed transmission (not too many gears), normal tires (not run flat), a normal battery that is actually under the hood, Carplay with Touchscreen, and Lexus Safety System+ 2.5. All things I didn't know I missed until I didn't have them on my other recent vehicles.

 

Personally I don't think it's a bad car, in fact it's a great car. But most buyers are moving on to other brands, as shown by the sales numbers and Lexus is not doing much to keep them or bring them back (ES Sold 41K units, down -8.4 percent from 2021)

 

That's what I'm thinking too.
Maybe 30% I don't know but it's not 100% or anywhere near it.

Have to be good at something. IMO
If Toyota doesn't want to do EV's then the need to do ICE well.

Another words- they need to do ICE as well as Tesla does EV's.
Which means, stop it with the engine downsizing. lol

Hanging Turbos on smaller engines is not doing ICE well. haha

 

I too switched to BMW (m550i) and Porsche (Macan S, 718 GTS, Cayenne Turbo Coupe, 992 S), but came back. Happy to be back . Lexus just feels like home to me.

 

that's the trend every automaker is following, downsizing. From the numbers I'm seeing, nobody is buying the bigger engine cars in significant numbers. The ES is one of the few cars left that offers a V6 and sales are going down year after year

 

I never said you were making up numbers....or making up anything else. What I said (which is true) is that many people simply find it impractical to own a BEV because of inacessabiity to outdoor or garage charging-outlets. In fact, if you saw my recent write-up on the Chevy Bolt EUV, my local GM dealership is now offering free recharges to their BEV customers to help address that problem.

 

If I ever went back to gasoline engine cars, it would be most likely be a Lexus, IS350 F Sport or IS500. Not much else interests me, maybe a used LS460

 

I suggest you double check your numbers, Toyota sold probably around 3 million hybrids last year, if not more.

You seem very confused, are you looking at Toyota North America numbers vs Tesla worldwide numbers?

Also only reason their sales are down is chip shortage for which they were finally hit hard in 2022.

Are they really behind in EVs? Yes. But it won't be hurting them soon. Next 5 years if they don't change things? Certainly.

And not by Tesla, but companies like Byd.

 

I knew you believed me, I just wanted to give you my sources. I'm all for automakers offering ICE and Hybrid to their customers, in fact I'm against the ICE ban announced by some states. What I'm saying is that Toyota sales are stagnating, and part of that is due to the fact that they don't offer a viable EV. A number of their Hybrid customers are transitioning to EV's and buying Tesla's, Hyundai/Kia's etc. There is really no reason they could not have transitioned a couple of their hybrid lines to EV only

 

I just got the IS 350 this last week, so far it's great!!! I had a 2002 IS 300 years ago as my first Lexus. Something about the car just fits. It's the perfect size for me and is easy to get in and out being a 4 door. Steering and handling feel great. I went with the 350 since I've had a RC F, GS F, and LC 500 with the V8. It's a great engine and sounds amazing, but it does feel heavy and is thirsty. I hear you on a used LS 460...had that thought myself.