If you feel the argument is over. That’s fine, I won’t discuss and I will move on. I think the discussion of hydrogen is fascinating. There will be a point where battery vehicles hit a wall in their growth as the drawbacks of charging/grid and mass/weight are far too difficult to overcome in the long term.

 

No, it is fascinating, but I've presented my data, and you've only given me your opinion. You haven't presented to me any data showing that hydrogen is cheaper or that hydrogen vehicles are better, when actually they are more complex, and lose energy while converting hydrogen to usable energy. You haven't given me any details of when hydrogen infrastructure will be built out or what it will cost. You make a false claim that battery vehicles hit a wall when each generation gets better, and battery tech is continually getting better. An example of that is in 2021 it took an average of 40 minutes to charge from 10 percent to 80 but now it takes 18 minutes.

Respectfully, I've presented my arguments, I don't have much more to say on the subject, so it's actually on you, not me

 

I only listed what that single county uses in power not the state lol!

 

I think this is probably the wrong thread to discuss this, but understood!

 

The only way I can see hydrogen working is mass nuclear power adoption to generate said hydrogen at coastal areas to be shipped around, that would be an amazing solution since it would not require the weight and insanely demanding resources of BEVs

 

I agree, because it takes a lot of energy to produce hydrogen, and a nuclear power plant would be able to provide that energy cheaply. But the shipping would be an added cost unfortunately as there is no pipeline

 

Posting screenshots of articles without sources we can all read for ourselves makes them totally useless.
You need to do some basic research on how grid storage compliments the grid and is playing a bigger bigger role. And what the ultimate goal is.
Hydrogen pipeline is impossible the gas is far too pernicious it leeches through everything. A giant pipeline would leak like crazy assuming it didn't blow out completely.

 

You edited your previous comment so I'm going to reply again. Current battery technology and chemistry used in today's BEV's is in it's infancy. By the time it hits that theoretical wall you mentioned, both of us and everyone we know will be long gone. You always mention weight, but V8's which you love so much weight a lot. But weight is actually an advantage for an EV because it balances out the car, giving it equal weight distribution. The enemy of an EV it turns out is not weight, but aerodynamics. Which is the reason Tesla's and other EV's adopt the shapes and make design decisions that they do. But that said, batteries are only going to get lighter and more energy dense over time. That's already being proven, EV's from 2020 don't get nearly the range of EV's in 2022. By 2024 EV's are probably going to have standard ranges of 400 plus with 15 minute charging, and by 2030 it's probably going to be more like 10 minute charging. I think you know this, have heard this a thousand times, but just don't want to accept it. And that's fine with me. Everyone has the right to believe what they want.

I would not write off hydrogen, but today it is too costly ($7 a litre), which put's it at $26.50 a gallon. Imagine that fill up cost! And even if you subsidize that cost, it's still going to be expensive.To compete with electricity (or even gasoline) you would need to get the cost below a $1 per gallon

 

Oh I know how it's supposed to work vs how it actually works. I just used cali state gov website, I'm sure you can find it as well.

 

The lunar landers ran on hydrogen




HONDA is right to get this CRV out there.

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/2...hydrogen-power

It has to work. Otherwise the climate change stuff with never happen. The entire planet using batteries is impossible. You would need to create renewable green hydrogen anyways to make electricity. Zero emissions in 2050 is possible (In some places).

 

Hydrogen is not a source of energy it is a way to store energy. We've said it 1000's of times at this point it takes far more electricity to create hydrogen and eventually move a vehicle down the road as it does to power the car directly. It's dead end technology this will be proven more and more going forward.

There is no sane way to argue that a hydrogen energy infrastructure makes any sense.

 

I tried my best in my mind to make it a viable energy storage "source", but it just doesn't work no matter how many times I looked at it. And as I stated earlier in this thread, it takes a lot of electricity to produce the end product. And the cost is unbelievably expensive, add almost zero infrastructure and it's damn that's about break. For me it's a no go, and I've accepted that, and Toyota and Honda know that as well, but they are stuck in bet they made. I suspect others will eventually have to accept that, in time it will sink in

 

Replace the source with a nuclear reactor and it makes a hell of a lot of sense.

 

Unfortunately there's not a lot of nuclear reactors nearby . The one we have near San Diego is really old, and they are retiring it in a few years

 

No it doesn't. You still have to build out 10's of thousands of hydrogen stations, ship all the liquid fuel there, compress it into giant tanks. And it takes 2x (conservative, likely more) the amount of electricity for the car to go the same distance as an EV.

How many times have we heard the grid can't handle EVs, well double that if every car become hydrogen.