in defense of lexus, while the on screen controls for seat heating/cooling/etc on my LC are a VERY bad idea to try and use while driving, lexus has the "climate concierge" feature which is awesome. you turn it on, and it decides based on a bunch of factors whether to heat or cool the seats and whether to heat the steering wheel and by how much. it all works seamlessly and seems to do the right thing.

 

Thanks for removing where you called me a liar.

Couple things. This comparison test is a new refresh LS500, which I have not driven. My comparison of the LS500 and the LS460 is from the pre-refresh LS. In this very thread I stated the following:

If you watch the video, they agree with everything else I said there.

I do not have a "hate boner" for the LS500. Why would I? I also no longer have an LS460, so why would I have any reason to hold that model up against the LS500? I also put my money where my mouth was and replaced my LS460L with an S560 that cost $30,000 more than a comparable LS500. If I was lying about my issues with the LS500, why would I have done that after having bought nothing but Lexus vehicles for myself for the last 20 years? Believe me, I would have happily saved the money and gotten an LS500 if that model didn't have the shortcomings IMO it has.

The ride issues with the pre-refresh LS500 are well documented in reviews, so my opinion there is not in a vacuum. Nearly every pre refresh LS500 review mentions the ride.

Consumer Reports LS460:




Consumer Reports pre refresh LS500:






I would ask you how many miles you have logged in LS460s and LS500s comparing the cars and comparing the rides? I have driven at least 10 LS500s, and owned two LS460s putting 100,000 miles on those models.

I look forward to driving the refresh LS500, and if they have tweaked the ride to where it rides as well or better than the LS460L thats great. That however does not solve my other issues with the car, such as the lack of a V8, and the tighter interior. Even if the ride was just as good as what I had and what I got, I still would have chosen the S560 because of the V8 and the roomier interior.

I have also posted very frank opinions about my new S Class and the LS and Lexus. Im very happy with it, but there are certainly things that Lexus does better and that I miss from the LS. I would absolutely buy another Lexus LS.

 

My GS has this, though it doesn't tie in with the steering wheel heat, but it does a wonderful job at managing my seats. I never use those controls. I just leave them on auto and literally never use the hard controls, so the omission of physical controls would not be an issue for me.

The one that does bother me a bit is the warmer for the windshield wipers. On my Highlander, it's a physical switch, but on the GS it can only be turned on by pulling up the climate display on the screen and selecting it. It's not a huge deal as I don't use it often anyway, but I use it even less than I would if there were a dash mounted switch for it.

 

I can honestly say that Mercedes infotainment is just as frustrating with things being buried in menus that shouldnt be, etc

 

I bet the new 21 will be ever more difficult to use

 

That climate concierge thing is a pretty cool feature. I think that was why they went the route Lexus did. It’s a good try for them even if it didn’t work out

 

Oh, no doubt!

 

I actually never cared for that, I like to control the heated seats and wheel and all myself vs letting the car do it.

 

yup but I drive in bmw has been great since the launch of the F10 in 2010-11....

Pursuit of perfection, take the best, make it better and perfect it,

Lexus winning formula from Japan in 1990, do it in 2020

 

Yeah iDrive is on another level, although the latest iteration of iDrive has its detractors.

The difference between the Lexus and Mercedes system is the Mercedes system looks better and more modern, has many more features and functions but from a usability standpoint I dont see a massive difference. For instance, my car has no track forward button. If you display album art in the center of the cluster then you can swipe DOWN not up on the left steering wheel thumb control to move forward a track, but only if you have album art displayed. On the COMAND controller there is a track button, but it pulls up a pop up menu where you then have to look and turn the wheel to advance a track. Why?!? Thats at least as dumb as having the heated seats in a menu, but the press doesn't get on MB for tech the way they do Lexus.

I use CarPlay all the time as I did in my LS. In fact I have never used the Mercedes navigation, phone etc

 

understood Steve, there are three known factors is my point

Lexus app / enform / infotainment is the worst and disliked if not hated

Mercedes has a complex systems that users like that has a long way to go to be best in class, this is a known for last 5 years

I Drive has been the best, it still is and is even greater with the ability of touch screens...

Lexus should employ the model take the best, and make it even better MB is average to above average at best, and has faults

IDrive is great for what is is, including the controller I use in my wife's f10 to interface with it... the mouse device and touch pad that Lexus has is awful and shameful for a company that cares about user touch points and interfaces as Lexus does in interiors..

the command controller in the c and e class over the last years until it was updated in 2019 was a joke tooo, how these devices pass management to get approvals is beyond my comprehension

 

I totally agree, I just think the "hatred' of enform is largely centered on the press. I think actual car buyers and owners don't hate it nearly as much as the press would lead you to believe.

 

you know the best press ???

Me, have had 15 Lexus Loaners from 2017 on, had my friends gs350 f sport for 2 weeks daily...
its a complete joke,
looks like a joke
blue hue and visual is a joke for 2018- and above
controller is flimsy and feels cheap
noises are cheap and annoying...

if it can't pass the test for those who have owned lexus vehicles since inception, why release it and embrace it 10 years after the fact
makes no business sense

 

and then complicate it further w menus, and very little improvement in a 10 year development in the new LS...

 

Ive owned 7 Lexus vehicles going back 22 years, I have never had a problem with Enform. If people hated it so much you would see that in loss of sales and customer satisfaction, and you dont.