Speed limit implications and observations
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From: Virginia/D.C. suburbs
Yes, I know.....remember, I used to drive it almost every day.
I used that scene simply to illustrate the sometimes-impossible traffic approaching the Beltway rom all directions.
No kidding. An earthquake wouldn't stop some of those people. 
I don't see where any one is forced to speed. One can stay at or close to the limit, any time they want, and avoid the possibility of tickets in the first place. I don't buy the "Need for Speed" argument...never did, never will. And, even in Mont Co, the speed-cameras are set for 10-11 MPH over the limit......stay in that range, and you'll be OK. Most cops won't bother you if you are in that range either.
My answer to those who want to speed is that we live in a democracy......Run for office and enact laws raising the limits if you feel that strongly about it....or change the laws to make driving legally a right instead of a privilege, which it is now.
I used that scene simply to illustrate the sometimes-impossible traffic approaching the Beltway rom all directions.
The point is, people who drive like these Mustang guys aren't stopped by speed limits.
When you have a law abiding citizen driving a car at 70MPH in a 55 when the flow of traffic is 70MPH, that person is driving his vehicle safely and should not be ticketed. Luckily, even though the law allows them to most police officers would not ticket somebody in those situations. The only time I have found that not to be the case is on roadways policed by those agencies I mentioned earlier, and in areas where the local town derives a lot of revenue from tickets. Great example is down 81 in Harrisonburg, VA near JMU. The speed limit goes from 70 to 60 within the Harrisonburg City Limits and the road is heavily policed by Harrisonburg City cops. The argument is because of exits and traffic, but having spent as much time on that road as I have, there is no change in traffic patterns or density there. The limit goes down because the city of Harrisonburg makes a fortune on those tickets. The Harrisonburg cops will drag someone right out of a line of cars all going the same speed and give them a ticket.
You also see a dramatic reduction in enforcement along those highways where they raised the limits to 70 from 65 a few years ago, the 85th percentile speed of those roadways is now within 5-10 MPH of that posted limit and enforcement is no longer fruitful.
Another example is the ICC in Montgomery County. Road should have at least a 65 limit, it was 55 and they raised it to 60. Low traffic, mostly straight with very few exits...but HEAVILY policed by the MTA Police. Why is the limit so low and why is enforcement so high compared to other highways? Revenue.
You also see a dramatic reduction in enforcement along those highways where they raised the limits to 70 from 65 a few years ago, the 85th percentile speed of those roadways is now within 5-10 MPH of that posted limit and enforcement is no longer fruitful.
Another example is the ICC in Montgomery County. Road should have at least a 65 limit, it was 55 and they raised it to 60. Low traffic, mostly straight with very few exits...but HEAVILY policed by the MTA Police. Why is the limit so low and why is enforcement so high compared to other highways? Revenue.
My answer to those who want to speed is that we live in a democracy......Run for office and enact laws raising the limits if you feel that strongly about it....or change the laws to make driving legally a right instead of a privilege, which it is now.
Last edited by mmarshall; Jan 3, 2021 at 04:25 PM.
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From: Maryland
I don't see where any one is forced to speed. One can stay at or close to the limit, any time they want, and avoid the possibility of tickets in the first place. I don't buy the "Need for Speed" argument...never did, never will. And, even in Mont Co, the speed-cameras are set for 10-11 MPH over the limit......stay in that range, and you'll be OK. Most cops won't bother you if you are in that range either.
The fact that "most cops won't bother you" isn't the point. The point is that the limits aren't set where they would provide the safest travel, they are set in such a way as to make revenue. Its an adverse tax. The fact that cops won't bother you illustrates the point.
My answer to those who want to speed is that we live in a democracy......Run for office and enact laws raising the limits if you feel that strongly about it....or change the laws to make driving legally a right instead of a privilege, which it is now.
There are plenty of roads where the speed limit is perfectly fine.
Thread Starter
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From: Virginia/D.C. suburbs
If revenue alone were the main object, the judge would keep turning you loose to speed even more and make the state more money..... "Yes, Sir, Mr. or Ms. X, you're free to go now......keep that right foot down on the pedal and those $$$$$ coming in."
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They get plenty of revenue off of tickets that don't endanger your license.
Read this article:
https://www.virginiamercury.com/blog...or-money-most/
In the state of VA speeding ticket revenue tops $300M annually.
Another great article referenced in the above article:
https://www.governing.com/archive/go...-to-fines.html
So yeah, revenue is absolutely a factor.
Read this article:
https://www.virginiamercury.com/blog...or-money-most/
But 124 miles away, there’s a town that relies on bad drivers’ traffic fines and similar payments more than Emporia: Eastville, a 200-person town on the Eastern Shore, has a $349,232 town budget that comes mostly (72%) from fines and forfeitures, according to an analysis by Governing magazine.
“We found that for hundreds of mostly small cities and towns, fines are a critical source of funding, at times accounting for more than half of all general revenues,” the magazine wrote. That could become a problem for towns like Eastville that rely heavily on those fines to fund its basic operations.
“Mounting legal and political movements are targeting cuts to fines and court fees. The eventual proliferation of autonomous vehicles and improvements in driver technology could further one day drastically reduce traffic fines,” Governing wrote. “For these and other reasons, it’s an open question as to whether the financial viability of governments most dependent on fines could be threatened over the long term.”
“Mounting legal and political movements are targeting cuts to fines and court fees. The eventual proliferation of autonomous vehicles and improvements in driver technology could further one day drastically reduce traffic fines,” Governing wrote. “For these and other reasons, it’s an open question as to whether the financial viability of governments most dependent on fines could be threatened over the long term.”
- Emporia (fines make up 2.7% of the city’s total revenues)
- Sussex County (fines make up 4.7% of county revenues)
- Brunswick County (fines are 5.6% of county revenues)
- Greensville County (fines are 7.3% of county revenues)
- Gordonsville (fines are 8.2% of the town’s total revenues)
- LaCrosse (fines make up 20.8% of the town’s total revenues)
- Waverly (fines are 34.8% of the town’s revenue, though Governing based that amount on a 2014 financial statement)
In the state of VA speeding ticket revenue tops $300M annually.
Another great article referenced in the above article:
https://www.governing.com/archive/go...-to-fines.html
What we found is that in hundreds of jurisdictions throughout the country, fines are used to fund a significant portion of the budget. They account for more than 10 percent of general fund revenues in nearly 600 U.S. jurisdictions. In at least 284 of those governments, it’s more than 20 percent. Some other governments allocate the revenues outside the general fund. When fine and forfeiture revenues in all funds are considered, more than 720 localities reported annual revenues exceeding $100 for every adult resident. And those numbers would be even higher if they included communities reporting less than $100,000 in fines; those jurisdictions were excluded from our analysis. In some places, traffic fine revenue actually exceeds limits outlined in state laws.
Last edited by SW17LS; Jan 3, 2021 at 05:01 PM.
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From: Long Island
I don't see where any one is forced to speed. One can stay at or close to the limit, any time they want, and avoid the possibility of tickets in the first place. I don't buy the "Need for Speed" argument...never did, never will. And, even in Mont Co, the speed-cameras are set for 10-11 MPH over the limit......stay in that range, and you'll be OK. Most cops won't bother you if you are in that range either.
this is simply reality and to deny it would mean one is just completely out to lunch
Thread Starter
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From: Virginia/D.C. suburbs
if you drive at exactly the speed 'limit' on many major highways during the day you'll quickly get a bunch of angry frustrated people piling up behind you trying to get past... you can wag your finger at them as you like to do or realize what the current situation is and respond accordingly to mitigate the circumstance.
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First, who says I wag my finger?....please do not make unsubstantiated or stereotypical comments. Second, one cannot always control the reaction of others. Third, adults are responsible for their own actions...not those of others, even if others may be annoying them or going too slow for their tastes. Fourth, if these people are that prone to losing their temper, they should certainly not be behind the wheel of a vehicle. That is not a place to strut one's ego.
Thread Starter
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From: Virginia/D.C. suburbs
I never said that. I sometimes exceed it myself....but not with callous disregard. I'm careful to stay within the law, and within the bounds that police and speed cameras usually allow.....10 MPH +/-.
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From: Long Island
the flow of traffic is also routinely 15-30 mph over the limit on a highway so you can be going 75 in a 55 and not stand out, and not standing out is my main advice on how not to get pulled over
Thread Starter
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From: Virginia/D.C. suburbs
from what i've seen although the limits are lower you tend not to get bothered as much for going anything under like 20 over the posted limit, i think cops just look at it like fishing and wait for a really big catch before doing something
the flow of traffic is also routinely 15-30 mph over the limit on a highway so you can be going 75 in a 55 and not stand out, and not standing out is my main advice on how not to get pulled over
the flow of traffic is also routinely 15-30 mph over the limit on a highway so you can be going 75 in a 55 and not stand out, and not standing out is my main advice on how not to get pulled over
Can't speak for all the states out West, but, in Virginia, 25 MPH or more over the posted limit, or over 80 MPH regardless of the limit, is an automatic Reckless-Driving charge.....a serious matter. Virginia also does not allow the use of radar-detectors or jammers with its boundaries. You can physically have one in the vehicle, but MUST keep it turned off, or face a possible impounding of the unit (which has been upheld by the courts). And the police, particularly State Troopers, know when you are using one...they themselves have "Detector-Detectors".
Might sound a little harsh to residents of some mother states, but that's one reason why the death and serious injury rate from accidents in Virginia is low compared to a number of other states. D.C., from what I understand, also has a No-Detector-Use law.
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Can't speak for all the states out West, but, in Virginia, 25 MPH or more over the posted limit, or over 80 MPH regardless of the limit, is an automatic Reckless-Driving charge.....a serious matter. Virginia also does not allow the use of radar-detectors or jammers with its boundaries. You can physically have one in the vehicle, but MUST keep it turned off, or face a possible impounding of the unit (which has been upheld by the courts). And the police, particularly State Troopers, know when you are using one...they themselves have "Detector-Detectors".
for these not to be treated like dashcams is pretty much all the proof needed that it's all about revenue... you can protect yourself from insurance fraud but not from an improperly used radar gun
Thread Starter
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From: Virginia/D.C. suburbs
Here's a link you might find interesting.....Reckless-driving Laws state-by-state.
https://www.mit.edu/~jfc/laws.html
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virginia's driving laws might be the biggest reason i'd never move there lol... 80 mph in my cars (or basically any car made today) can be painfully slow, for that to be an automatic misdemeanor is just medieval thinking... and i almost feel naked when i'm without the trusty valentine one
I have no issue with VA's reckless driving law because I don't feel limited by it. 25 MPH over the limit, so thats 80 in a 55...
With the limits at 70 through VA where I travel regularly to WV I set the cruise at 80 and don't even worry about cops now. You rarely ever see one, and at 80 they don't bother me. The only area you have to be careful of is Harrisonburg, VA where the limit goes to 60 and the city makes a big chunk of revenue off of tickets, and on 19 when I'm almost there through Fayette County, WV where the county and the town police the 4 lane for the same reason.
Last edited by SW17LS; Jan 5, 2021 at 07:23 AM.