I hope the WSJ article linked below is not behind a paywall, because it goes into the split happening in the industry between a future of hybrids (Toyota, Ford) and EVs (GM, VW). The GM prez was emphatic that he saw no future for hybrids, while the other side says folks will refuse EVs being forced on them under current (Ha!) conditions. The article contains a graph showing EV and hybrid sales over the past half-dozen years. EVs are stagnant while hybrids are growing.

I drive a hybrid so I theoretically have a horse in this race, but it will be interesting to see how this all sorts out. If EVs DON'T take off it appears to me that a whole lot of money will be squandered by some big players.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/gm-volk...es-11565602200

EDIT: Looks like the article is behind the paywall after all. It wasn't an hour ago. Sigh...

 

No link

 

Hybrids for Toyota are set to explode. This is why we are seeing them in all their lines and they are downsizing them to be more of an alternative to the base engine with no uptake in price. EVs will come after. I think Hyundai has a big opportunity as well.

 

non paywall similar articles

https://www.foxbusiness.com/technolo...ybrid-vehicles

http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/3771110/posts

https://hardware.slashdot.org/story/...ybrid-vehicles

 

It's not like GM and VW has much skin in the game in hybrids. Makes sense for them to go EV.

All the hybrids I've ever driven were crappy as hell to drive except one which was the q50 hybrid. But that one had 350 hp. All the ones that Toyota makes now are fuel saving hybrids. The EVs drive a million times better so maybe they play in different mkt segments.

 

Not to mention Ford and VW have an alliance on future EV's

 

Hybrids are now being used for performance as well as economy. The new Lincoln Aviator Grand Touring is a hybrid drive added to a 400 hp turbo V-6. Latest rating numbers are 494 hp and 630 lb/ft of torque. Instead of the eCVT that Toyota uses on their hybrids, the Lincoln keeps the conventional 10 speed auto. In Europe, the Edge ST will use this same power unit.

 

This is not surprising to me. The two automakers that have been serious about, and invested in developing good hybrid vehicles (Toyota and Ford), will continue to sell them, while GM and VW, both of which have not seemed particularly serious about hybrid vehicles, have decided to dump them and gamble on EVs.

GM has never seemed to know what it wanted to do with hybrid vehicles.

GM had a Silverado/Sierra micro-hybrid (auto-stop) system that was interesting because it also provided 120 VAC outlets, aimed at commercial users, in the bed and in the cab. This model did not last long, before being replaced by the Dual Mode Hybrid.

GM had the excellent (but complex) Dual Mode Hybrid system which was first developed for buses by Allison Transmission (then owned by GM) which it further developed for automotive use with DaimlerChrysler (Mercedes-Benz and Chrysler) and BMW. The partners quickly gave up, though, and this system is no longer used. There was even a FWD-based Saturn Vue Hybrid using this technology.

This was an excellent system because it was suitable, from the start, for use in trucks (being developed from the start for use in heavy commercial vehicles), which Toyota's Hybrid Synergy Drive is not.

GM had the excellent full-hybrid Voltec system based on a power-split device transmission, used in the Volt and current Malibu Hybrid.

While GM was developing the Voltec, it also had a mild-hybrid belt-alternator-starter (BAS) hybrid system (the LaCrosse Hybrid uses this).

I always thought that if GM had just concentrated on one hybrid system rather than spreading its resources too thinly across too many different systems, it could have had an excellent line of hybrid vehicles.

VW never seemed (to me) to be that interested in hybrid vehicles. In my opinion, it took the easy way out, developing something very similar to Honda's original (mild-hybrid) Integrated Motor Assist, which was sandwiching an electric motor between the engine and the transmission. VW was always more serious about diesel cars, and when that blew up in its face, it had no real choice (for the optics) but to jump head first into EVs.

 

I’ve driven several hybrids. I felt they were all terrible except the GS450h which was pretty incredible but had a tiny trunk and Lexus only used stealth marketing (hardly anyone knew it existed).

toyota’s doing a good job, finally, of packaging and making the hybrid option more affordable (RAV4 notably).

 

When has Gone to Mexico (GM) ever had a plan and stuck to it and succeeded? And VW lol (just the VW marque not it's other holdings). If I have to place bets on who's got a better forecast of future trends, it'll be on Toyota, Honda, and Tesla.

Here in Canada we have a gas tax that is going to compound the price of gas every year until oblivion. This could all change in October if our clown in chief Trudeau loses and the new leadership scraps this gas tax, we call it the carbon tax. The new leadership may even scrap the EV/PHEV rebates. This election may itself determine the fate of how quickly EVs may be adopted in Canada. And this is just one of the factors in Canada.

There are too many uncertainties.

And I'm just thinking about Canada.

Something else about western Canada, it gets very cold, and in -25 degrees celsius, there's no EV that can travel 280 kms between towns on a highway with even a slight headwind. There are no reliable charging stations yet between such towns. People do need to travel between these towns in the winter. A Kia NIro that's only 70% charged will probably leave you stranded in the middle of a highway in the middle of a Canadian winter. At the same time, Tesla is building numerous charging stations this year in western Canada. Who can tell what the EV future will look like in Canada lol.

 

I read those articles and personally ignore the blabberings of the "decision makers" and what they tell the public. I put them in the same category as the autonomous vehicle (AV) developers who say AV ubiquity will happen in this or that year. Many of these blabberings are for exaggerations for the sake of gathering publicity and generating hype. The reality is that there is no golden path to AV ubiquity. The developers need millions of miles to train their AI and have yet to deal with corner cases, the 1% of situations that take 99% of development effort. In 10 years there may be a good deal of urban centers in the US with AV's running about, but I'll place my bets on people still driving themselves around in say Iowa in winter or northern Ontario. The same with the doomsayers at GM/VW.

My bets are on GM and VW flopping lol.

 

Good one

Very true.

100% agree.

 

Made me visualize a sad scene of a Canadian police car with flashing lights stopped to find a driver, frozen to death, in the driver’s seat of a Kia Niro, in the middle of nowhere. Like a scene out of Fargo.

 

A Niro is not a full-electric. It is a gas/electric hybrid....essentially a Prius whose styling and design doesn't look like something out of a Halloween party. It should not leave one stranded as long as they don't let both the gas tank empty and the battery-charge die out.

 

There’s an EV version of the Niro.