On the topic of tax credits, I'm not sure if this has been mentioned since I haven't read the entire thread.. but I read somewhere that the reason the Y was excluded is because it doesn't weigh enough. Someone on Twitter said it was 250 pounds under the weight limit. Apparently the Mach-E Mustang is also not eligible for the credit, and it's a very similar size and type of vehicle as the Y. I personally think it's absolute garbage for both of those vehicles to be excluded when a 21 mile range Wrangler can get it.

 

Yeah, and I would find it more suspicious if they are losing money on these cars.
Kinda like a wink...wink... let me help ya out a little on that. lol

 

The Y is just a fat M3, a egg shaped taller car. It's more a crossover at best like an enclave or something of that nature not like a real size SUV.

Even so it's totally idiotic they don't include it since by most peoples standard anything that is slightly tall is an SUV.

 

I covered that in my earlier post. Of the two part test to qualify as a utility vehicle, the first part has an either/or component. The either/or tests are AWD/4WD and a GVWR of over 6000 lbs. It doesn’t meet the GVWR test but it does have AWD/4WD so it does get to move on the second part of the second part which is the must meet four out of five criteria for things like ground clearance, approach angle, departure angle etc. It doesn’t do very well on part two which is why it doesn’t qualify as an SUV. It doesn’t matter how it’s sold or marketed, a vehicle has to meet specific capability requirements to qualify and the Model Y doesn’t. The 7 seater does qualify because of a separate test where more than two rows of seats comes into the equation. The Model Y is excellent, we’ve thought of getting one, but for tax credit purposes it’s being treated as a car unless it has the third row.

 

You seem very knowledgeable on this.

If not technically an SUV, does Model Y qualify for anything?
Just curious, I have no dog in this fight.

 

the inclusion of plug in hybrids is an addition, not a subtraction. There are no sales caps in the provisions. The plug in hybrids are subject to the same qualification criteria for the 55k or 80k MSRP determination.

what actually impacts the Y here are its car-like specifications and the MSRP. Nothing more, nothing less.

as noted earlier, Tesla can sell and qualify as many Model Y’s as they can build if the MSRP is 55k or less. Alternatively, Tesla can ensure the two-row Model Y meets the utility conditions noted earlier and they can sell and qualify as many as they can build if the MSRP is under 80k. They can already sell as many 7 seaters as they can build if the MSRP is 80k or under.

 

It does, the three row variants do qualify up to 80k MSRP. The 5 seater qualifies too, but due to its specs it is treated as a car so it must have an MSRP of 55k or less. If it did, it would qualify for the full credit.

 

Great insight, thank you. Sorry to have you type it again, I read some of this thread but not too far back before posting my comment about weight. It's unfortunate the 5 seater Y isn't included here. If the Mach E had actually made the cut to qualify, it would certainly trigger my tin foil hat side knowing that there are folks in the gov't who don't like Tesla for various reasons - but particularly their lack of union labor.

 

Good one!

Yeah I'm gonna holster my tin foil hat for now too.
I'll have it ready in case I need it and smell dirty business going on. lol

Nothing ever changes since beginning of time, the ambitions and greed of mankind is always lurking so I ask lots of questions....
And rarely are things what they appear...

 

Well 2023 will be a very difficult year for Tesla.
I think as demand continues to decrease on existing models and nothing new will be coming until 2024 - their stock price will continue to get hammered.

All these OEMs should take note that rushing to EVs without real customer demand is not smart.

 

All the EV hype is finally going to go bust!👍

 

Looks like the model S and X are getting normal steering wheels as option. That’s good.

 

"demand continues to decrease" is interesting, considering they sold record level of vehicles last year, and overall EVs have record share in Europe and China.

Question is - will that demand go to Tesla and what is the limit of demand at current prices (which are extremely high).

In China, they dropped the pricing... almost to 2021 levels. In Europe, they are discounting available cars (they seem to have few hundred available cars in Europe). Hopefully with new boss at help of sales, that will mean they will start dropping the price to where it was in 2021.

At that point, they will have huge demand.

Rising prices by 30%-40% and doubling your manufacturing abilities to over 2m, this had to happen.

Next step after lowering the prices would be doing regular car stuff:
- Tesla owned finance company (this is how Toyota makes a lot of their money) and introduction of leases - right now Tesla sells 5% of vehicles via leasing vs >50% for other premium brands at similar prices
- Marketing and PR deparment
etc, etc.

They cant continue behaving if they are producing 400k vehicles anymore. Now they are serious manufacturer that wants to do 2m vehicles in 2023. This is on level of BMW, MB, but with market limited to where EV is possible (China, Europe, parts of USA).

 

news from today are:
- S/X gets normal steering as default option
- S/X LR start sales in Europe
- S/X LR/Plaid start sales in China
- 3/Y get huge price cuts in China of 15%-20% to almost go back to 2021 levels
- 3/Y Inventory of vehicles available in Europe with small discounts ($3000-$5000).