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Whither hydrogen?

 
Old 06-12-19, 09:47 PM
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bitkahuna
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Default Whither hydrogen?

Alex on autos got stranded with his hydrogen nexo because of a failure if the hydrogen station in NorCal, and in Norway a hydrogen station blew up causing Toyota to stop hydrogen car sales there. See here

https://electrek.co/2019/06/11/hydro...uel-cell-cars/

Not great PR.

Last edited by bitkahuna; 06-14-19 at 06:02 AM.
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Old 06-12-19, 11:59 PM
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well that's a shame... i remember when the GM hy-wire came out (and james may reviewed it) i was thinking hydrogen was the way of the future, and it really is like the perfect fuel just everything about it is so irritating... it's possibly the biggest tease in the universe

most abundant element, but it's always bonded with something... we are literally given an entire ocean full of it, but actually obtaining the hydrogen requires more energy than it gives back so people aren't too excited about that

now a hydrogen station blows up which will make people run around freaking about about 'how dangerous' it is... oh well more batteries for us now
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Old 06-13-19, 06:38 AM
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now a hydrogen station blows up which will make people run around freaking about about 'how dangerous' it is...


....and gasoline fumes are NOT explosive?

I fail to see where hydrogen stations, in the long run, are (potentially) any more dangerous than gasoline. Plus, unlike gasoline, you won't get sick or nauseated from breathing hydrogen fumes, along as there is is also an adequate supply of oxygen. Sure, there is probably some risk in transporting that highly-pressurized hydrogen on tanker-trucks, to the stations, but (again), that is also the case with gasoline. I've seen some terrible tanker-truck gas fires right here in the D.C. area, on the notoriously dangerous Beltway.

Alex on autos got stranded with his hydrogen nexo because of a failure if the hydrogen station in NorCal,
As for Alex and his Nexo, I heard he was going to get one, but I wasn't sure if he actually had it yet. For a relatively small vehicle that size, it is surprisingly expensive...starting at over 58K. Since he is part of the auto press, though, Hyundai might (?) have simply loaned or given him the car for long-term evaluation. As an excellent reviewer, Hyundai would probably want to get his opinion on it.

Last edited by mmarshall; 06-13-19 at 06:41 AM.
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Old 06-13-19, 08:03 AM
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Originally Posted by mmarshall View Post
I fail to see where hydrogen stations, in the long run, are (potentially) any more dangerous than gasoline.
Hydrogen is pressurized up to 10,000psi storing gasoline is much easier.
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Old 06-13-19, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Lexus2000 View Post
Hydrogen is pressurized up to 10,000psi storing gasoline is much easier.
Both are highly flammable and explosive. Many decades ago, hydrogen, with its strong but potentially dangerous lifting-power, was used in many airships and balloons, because the U.S. had most of the world's supply of much safer, more stable helium. A series of airship disasters, culminating in the famous Hindenberg fire in 1937, put a stop to its use in aviation. Helium, of course, cannot be used as a fuel, because it is too stable (an inert gas) and simply doesn't burn.

Actually, I'm not opposed to hydrogen-fueled vehicles...I never have been. I've long said that, however, that, if we are going to make them feasible outside of California (where there is already a hydrogen-refuel infrastructure in place), we've got to get cracking on getting the refueling stations built, and training technicians on how to service and repair those vehicles,
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Old 06-13-19, 03:56 PM
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So I have a hydrogen car, and I live in the same area as Alex.

The supply issue here wasn't an issue at a hydrogen station (the ones we use to fill up), it was an incident at the main Air Products depot (AP is one of the suppliers to the staton operator such as True Zero).

Supply is down, but it isn't out and it is getting better. I've not been personally affected. I can't speak for what Honda or in Alex's case Hyundai have done, but I can say that Toyota have stepped up. Customers who needed it have been provided with Toyota-funded rentals and other assistance. The response from Toyota has been pretty good. I assume Honda and Hyundai are stepping up too, but can only comment on what I've seen.

There are always going to be some challenges with alternative fuels. I've had mine for over 2.5 years and have never personally had any fuel supply issue (and haven't this time) but I think Toyota has handled this well. The issue was not one of their making, but they stepped up to help their customers. I think that goes a long way and, based on what I see in the private Toyota-managed owner group on FB, I think most owners feel the same way.

It looks like the issue is working itself out (it actually happened a week or two back, it's not something that happened today).

Last edited by swajames; 06-13-19 at 06:01 PM.
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Old 06-14-19, 05:23 AM
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Surprised to learn there are no hydrogen stations outside the State of California. Why is that? After reading A on A's review of the Hyundai nexo I don't see hydrogen being more convenient or versatile than EV's that can charged at home.
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Old 06-14-19, 05:59 AM
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Originally Posted by rogerh00 View Post
Surprised to learn there are no hydrogen stations outside the State of California. Why is that?
California, because of the classic smog and pollution in the L.A. basin (some of the worst smog in the. U.S.) has always been at the forefront of (and promoting) alternate-fuel vehicles. In fact, sometimes the state gets carried away with legislation mandating a percentage of these vehicle-sales that they simply can't enforce (people can't be forced to buy them) and are forced to retract the legislation.
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Old 06-14-19, 06:22 AM
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Originally Posted by mmarshall View Post
As for Alex and his Nexo, I heard he was going to get one, but I wasn't sure if he actually had it yet. For a relatively small vehicle that size, it is surprisingly expensive...starting at over 58K. Since he is part of the auto press, though, Hyundai might (?) have simply loaned or given him the car for long-term evaluation. As an excellent reviewer, Hyundai would probably want to get his opinion on it.
if you follow him on facebook you gets loads of good updates.
about the price, well, i believe it can only be leased, not bought, plus that includes all the hydrogen you’ll use, so there’s that.
as for loaning him one, i’m sure there’s very few of them period so loaning one is not reasonable. plus they want real world usage, not some review based on a couple of days.

on facebook he showed he towed the nexo back with a 2020 explorer hybrid. #irony...
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Old 06-14-19, 06:33 AM
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Originally Posted by bitkahuna View Post
if you follow him on facebook you gets loads of good updates.
No offense, but for many reasons, I avoid Facebook like the plague.


about the price, well, i believe it can only be leased, not bought, plus that includes all the hydrogen you’ll use, so there’s that.
as for loaning him one, i’m sure there’s very few of them period so loaning one is not reasonable. plus they want real world usage, not some review based on a couple of days.
Honda was the same way with the former hydrogen-using Civic GX...remember that one? It could only be leased...and, then, generally only in CA.
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Old 06-14-19, 06:40 AM
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Originally Posted by mmarshall View Post
No offense, but for many reasons, I avoid Facebook like the plague.
none taken and iím no fan of it either but it allows me to see some of what friends and family are up to, plus get updates from some people i like to follow. but yes, for many reasons too, i intensely dislike facebook. I donít run the app, or messenger, or instagram, whatsapp, or anything else to do with them.
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Old 06-15-19, 02:31 PM
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I drove a Toyota Mirai from San Diego county CA to Toyota HQ in Torrance CA. When I arrived at Toyota's H filling station it was empty so I had to return it empty.

The Mirai drove very well, much like an electric small car.
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Old 06-15-19, 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Byprodrive View Post

The Mirai drove very well, much like an electric small car.
That is exactly what a Mirai is once it converts hydrogen.

For whatever reason, I just love the Mirai. They have it every year at the Toronto Auto Show.
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Old 06-15-19, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by LexsCTJill View Post
That is exactly what a Mirai is once it converts hydrogen.

For whatever reason, I just love the Mirai. They have it every year at the Toronto Auto Show.

Have you had a chance to drive one? I wouldn't mind a chance to try a fuel cell vehicle out, but they (and hydrogen-stations) are difficult to find in the D.C. area.
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Old Yesterday, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by mmarshall View Post
Have you had a chance to drive one? I wouldn't mind a chance to try a fuel cell vehicle out, but they (and hydrogen-stations) are difficult to find in the D.C. area.
Yeah, you have to map out your route before you head out. I was very intimidated when I got to the "refueling station" H2 uses a very large nozzle that you "lock" in place, but it was no big deal.
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