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Lets put this debate to bed: 45 series tires/18" wheel Toyota shout out

 
Old 05-15-19, 06:56 AM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by Johnhav430 View Post
I think I am telling this correctly. When my dad got the Buick Envision, it was a base model--the list was like $39,xxx, and he got it for $30,xxx, and even all the tacked on stuff incl. paperwork were all removed. I thought he did fine. Anyway, his car had Michelin Premier LTX, a premium tire.

The loaded Envisions, they had Hankook Noble 2's. The difference was the loaded one's had 19's and were 235's. His were 225's. Plays perfectly into this thread, the 235's were 50's, the 225's were 60's.

Me, in the above case, since the 19's are wider, I would want them. If they were the same width, I'd want the 18's.

BMW is equally as guilty, on my car, regardless of 19 or 18, it's 255 in the rear, 225 in the front. so in this case, 18 is preferred, to me.
This is a fair assessment, I guess you want the wider tires for better grip? I think Alex on Autos claims that wider tires are noisier.
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Old 05-15-19, 12:03 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by LexsCTJill View Post
I think Alex on Autos claims that wider tires are noisier.
All else equal (and no other changes), yes, they would be noisier, but a number of other factors usually also come into play, such as tread-style, tread-depth, rubber-compound, road surface, etc....
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Old 05-15-19, 12:27 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by LexsCTJill View Post
Mathis was a great video. Thanks for posting. It kind of goes with the theme of this thread.
Yup, I just happened upon that one night surfing YouTube.

Originally Posted by IS350jet
Yes, interesting video. NVH, noise, comfort, undulations, crash over irregular pavement, handling, grip, etc. He didn't use the word "ride" once.


When he talks about "NVH" "crash over irregular pavement" he's talking about ride.

What do you define as ride if its not the way the car responds to irregularities on the road surface?!
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Old 05-15-19, 12:43 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by LexsCTJill View Post
cuz they just keep getting bigger and bigger. Nothing to do with sidewall, more with auto design. I like the larger wheels we are seeing.
Everything to do with sidewall for your comment about ride quality/comfort. The taller the sidewall the more insulation from rough roads. The tire aspect ratio, (middle number of a tire size 40,45,50,60 etc.) is just the result of the equation.
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Old 05-15-19, 12:44 PM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by Byprodrive View Post
Everything to do with sidewall for your comment about ride quality/comfort. The taller the sidewall the more insulation from rough roads. The tire aspect ratio, (middle number of a tire size 40,45,50,60 etc.) is just the result of the equation.
Does not explain the whole picture. Some tires ride rougher than others. Suspension plays a HUGE roll.
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Old 05-15-19, 02:48 PM
  #51  
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Yeah the tires themselves have a lot to do with it, as well. And it's even more nuanced than "hard" or "soft". I'd say the tires I currently have on the IS are better at isolating impacts than my old tires were, but they also allow me to feel more of the tiny imperfections in the road. It's down to the tire design.

Also, I rode in a friend's 335i with 19-inch wheels, 225/40R19 and 255/35R19. I'd say the ride quality was very similar to my IS with its 225/40R18 and 255/35R18. Even though his car had larger wheels, I found it to be very comfortable. To be fair, the aspect ratio and width of each tire is the same, which means the amount of sidewall is also the same. Even with that in mind, they were run-flat tires...
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Old 05-16-19, 03:27 AM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by SW17LS View Post

When he talks about "NVH" "crash over irregular pavement" he's talking about ride.

What do you define as ride if its not the way the car responds to irregularities on the road surface?!
I already defined it in my first post. Ride is how soft or stiff the suspension tuning is. One could ride around on steel wheels and the car could still "float" over irregular pavement. Would it be comfortable? Of course not, NVH, being the determining factor, not ride.
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Old 05-16-19, 03:49 AM
  #53  
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I am surprised how good the ride quality is on the UX, and that's with Bridgestone runflats. Granted, they are 50-series (225/50/18) but I swapped them with aftermarket 245/40/20 regular tires and the ride (impact) is equally as good if not a tad better!

Similar experience with 22" rims riding on 35 and 40 series tires I had on my NX and RX respectively where the drop from 60 and 55 series respectively had little negative impact (literally) on the ride quality.

From my experience, suspension design/damping plays the bigger role on ride quality over tires.
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Old 05-16-19, 05:54 AM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by arentz07 View Post
Yeah the tires themselves have a lot to do with it, as well. And it's even more nuanced than "hard" or "soft". I'd say the tires I currently have on the IS are better at isolating impacts than my old tires were, but they also allow me to feel more of the tiny imperfections in the road. It's down to the tire design.

Also, I rode in a friend's 335i with 19-inch wheels, 225/40R19 and 255/35R19. I'd say the ride quality was very similar to my IS with its 225/40R18 and 255/35R18. Even though his car had larger wheels, I found it to be very comfortable. To be fair, the aspect ratio and width of each tire is the same, which means the amount of sidewall is also the same. Even with that in mind, they were run-flat tires...
Not sure if your buddy's 335 is on OE rims, if so, they should be 225/35-19 and 255/30-19. The profiles you listed are what I have from the factory on 18's. 225/40-18 and 255/35-18.

This is the exact example I am referring to when I say BMW is not innocent either, of doing what GM does all day long. That is to offer larger rims, charge more, but have the same width. Now users have 1" more rim, 1" less sidewall, a disadvantage to unsprung weight, and parking as well. Look at the config of a M2, it's a smaller car than a 335i, but it's serious, not playing around...

edit rereading your post, you state "the amount of sidewall is also the same." If two aspects were identical, i.e. 40 and 35, one rim were 19", one rim were 18", that is not correct. The 19" tires have more rubber/sidewall. Which is why the aspect drops when the rim gets larger. The concept of +1 +2 +3 is that the overall diameter is relatively unchanged.

Last edited by Johnhav430; 05-16-19 at 06:00 AM.
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Old 05-16-19, 05:57 AM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by LexsCTJill View Post
Does not explain the whole picture. Some tires ride rougher than others. Suspension plays a HUGE roll.
I can think of an example, a C&D tire test, where a Michelin was better in the wet, than a Nankang in the dry. If I recall, the sidewalls were so soft on the Nankang they were deemed unacceptable from a performance perspective. They have have been very nice over bumps and going to soccer practice...
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Old 05-16-19, 07:03 AM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by Johnhav430 View Post
I can think of an example, a C&D tire test, where a Michelin was better in the wet, than a Nankang in the dry. If I recall, the sidewalls were so soft on the Nankang they were deemed unacceptable from a performance perspective. They have have been very nice over bumps and going to soccer practice...
Many drivers, though, are not looking for aggressive-driving performance, and would simply appreciate the Nankang's smooth ride. The whole world doesn't necessarily think (or drive) like most of the auto press.
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Old 05-16-19, 07:22 AM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by mmarshall View Post
Many drivers, though, are not looking for aggressive-driving performance, and would simply appreciate the Nankang's smooth ride. The whole world doesn't necessarily think (or drive) like most of the auto press.
Proof of what you say is shown in how many BMW owners passed on the sport package when it was cheap ($1400 for sport seats, shocks/springs, external engine oil cooler, staggered summer only tires--that's a lot for $1400).

Truth be told, imho many people care mostly about treadwear, both those who own and lease. For many, being able to go 60, 70, 80k on the same tires is important. For lessees, to be able to return the car without purchasing new tires is a plus.

Again I ask, how many even here on the forum have a car with full blown summers that really shouldn't be driven below 37 F? I bet the minority.
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Old 05-16-19, 07:26 AM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by Johnhav430 View Post
edit rereading your post, you state "the amount of sidewall is also the same." If two aspects were identical, i.e. 40 and 35, one rim were 19", one rim were 18", that is not correct. The 19" tires have more rubber/sidewall.
This is wrong. The sidewall height is the section width times the aspect ratio, full stop; wheel diameter is immaterial. so for a 255/35 tire, the sidewall is nominally 255mm x 0.35 = 89mm (3.5 inches) high. This remains true whether the wheel is 19, 18 or even 12 inches in diameter.

Originally Posted by Johnhav430 View Post
Which is why the aspect drops when the rim gets larger. The concept of +1 +2 +3 is that the overall diameter is relatively unchanged.
This part is correct. On the same car, when upsizing rims, one generally reduces aspect ratio to keep the overall diameter the same. For example, while I currently have 265/35/18 on my rears, I previously ran 265/30/19. Very close to the same overall diameter (not exact, but close enough), but a half-inch less sidewall on the larger wheel.

arentz07 was talking about tires on two different cars, where the wheel sizes were different, but the section width and aspect ratios were the same. Therefore, the sidewalls were the same height, but the BMW had an overall diameter one inch larger than the Lexus.

Originally Posted by Johnhav430 View Post
Again I ask, how many even here on the forum have a car with full blown summers that really shouldn't be driven below 37 F? I bet the minority.
Got at least one right here. My 335d kept its stock A/S Runflats for less than two weeks after I bought it, immediately being replaced by snow tires. In the spring it got new wheels and Pilot Super Sports.

Had intended to do the same on my wife's Q7 also--upsized to the 21" wheels which come standard with Summer-only tires--but Audi had recently started offering A/S as a no-cost option, so that was all the dealer was stocking. When they wear out, I will correct this issue.

Last edited by geko29; 05-16-19 at 07:29 AM.
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Old 05-16-19, 08:13 AM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by geko29 View Post
This is wrong. The sidewall height is the section width times the aspect ratio, full stop; wheel diameter is immaterial. so for a 255/35 tire, the sidewall is nominally 255mm x 0.35 = 89mm (3.5 inches) high. This remains true whether the wheel is 19, 18 or even 12 inches in diameter.



This part is correct. On the same car, when upsizing rims, one generally reduces aspect ratio to keep the overall diameter the same. For example, while I currently have 265/35/18 on my rears, I previously ran 265/30/19. Very close to the same overall diameter (not exact, but close enough), but a half-inch less sidewall on the larger wheel.

arentz07 was talking about tires on two different cars, where the wheel sizes were different, but the section width and aspect ratios were the same. Therefore, the sidewalls were the same height, but the BMW had an overall diameter one inch larger than the Lexus.



Got at least one right here. My 335d kept its stock A/S Runflats for less than two weeks after I bought it, immediately being replaced by snow tires. In the spring it got new wheels and Pilot Super Sports.

Had intended to do the same on my wife's Q7 also--upsized to the 21" wheels which come standard with Summer-only tires--but Audi had recently started offering A/S as a no-cost option, so that was all the dealer was stocking. When they wear out, I will correct this issue.
I am referring to the factory BMW offerings, on a 335i--what the poster typed is not from the factory, unless he had a typo.

What I am saying is a 255/35 19, and 18, yes, the rubber is the same. The diameter, is not. I'm not sure what I typed but that's what I meant. So you don't from the factory mount a 255/35-18 standard, and a 255/35-19 optional. The profile specifically with a 335i drops to 30 on a 19" package. Which, makes no sense to me because it's 1" more wheel, 1" less tire. It is not the same amount of rubber because the profile dropped.
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Old 05-16-19, 08:16 AM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by Johnhav430 View Post
What I am saying is a 255/35 19, and 18, yes, the rubber is the same. The diameter, is not. I'm not sure what I typed but that's what I meant. So you don't from the factory mount a 255/35-18 standard, and a 255/35-19 optional. The profile specifically with a 335i drops to 30 on a 19" package. Which, makes no sense to me because it's 1" more wheel, 1" less tire. It is not the same amount of rubber because the profile dropped.
We are on the same page.
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