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Lets put this debate to bed: 45 series tires/18" wheel Toyota shout out

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Lets put this debate to bed: 45 series tires/18" wheel Toyota shout out

 
Old 05-14-19, 09:14 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by tex2670 View Post
Everyone does. That's why car companies won't stop with the larger wheels--customers like the look.
You are correct, it's looks. Me personally, on a new car, I want the widest tires offered from the factory (those BMWs or Mercedes SUVs with the 315's or 295's on the rear? You betcha). If it's a scenario where there's an optional package where larger diameter rims = wider, and especially if staggered, then yes, I'll take them. But they often (take GM for example I'm sure there are many others) have something like 19,20,22 or something, where all 3 have the same width and it costs $1000+ to get a larger rim. In that case, I go small or base. I want less rim. But I am willing to get more rim, if that's what it takes to get wider. And I gotta have more cowbell.
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Old 05-14-19, 09:22 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by SW17LS View Post
Thats not really accurate. The cushioning effect that a tire has on bumps absolutely has an impact on how a car rides.

When you step on a stone wearing a pair of leather soled house slippers, or a pair of running shoes which one transmits more of the sharpness of the stone to your foot? The more sidewall the thicker the "sole", the more cushioning. Thats just physics.

If you drive the same car on smaller wheels and larger wheels you absolutely will feel a difference in ride. I've owned the same car on 18s with 50 series tires and 19s with 45 series tires and despite the 460L having air suspension and a longer wheelbase, the sharpness of that initial bump or pothole hit is definitely sharper with the 19s. Overall, the 460L rides better because its more planted and isolated with less vibration, but that initial strike the firmness is definitely threre.

As for road noise, you might be surprised that a slightly lower profile tire might actually be quieter

Interesting YouTube Comparison:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPyg3ilw3KU
Well, yes, I see your point, but again, I think this is the misunderstanding that I'm referring to. In my own opinion, I don't think low profile "impact sharpness" is considered "ride". I believe it's considered road noise or vibrations, or choppiness, or whatever you want to call it. Does it affect overall comfort? Of course it does, I just don't think it's ride comfort.
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Old 05-14-19, 09:36 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by Johnhav430 View Post
I only mean this in a nice way. But please, the next time you take a pic of my car and want to post it on the internet? At least ask first!!!
Oh--is yours the one always parked at the tobacco shop just off the Tacony Palmyra Bridge??
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Old 05-14-19, 09:40 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by IS350jet View Post
Well, yes, I see your point, but again, I think this is the misunderstanding that I'm referring to. In my own opinion, I don't think low profile "impact sharpness" is considered "ride". I believe it's considered road noise or vibrations, or choppiness, or whatever you want to call it. Does it affect overall comfort? Of course it does, I just don't think it's ride comfort.
What I'm describing is not a sound, its definitely ride. When I drive over something and I feel that in my body, thats ride.
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Old 05-14-19, 09:56 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by tex2670 View Post
Oh--is yours the one always parked at the tobacco shop just off the Tacony Palmyra Bridge??
Yes, it's a little out of the way but I go there after work on Thursdays, 2 fer 1 Vape, all flavors! Plus the bridge is $2 less so I get myself a lottery ticket with it...
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Old 05-14-19, 12:29 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by IS350jet View Post
In my own opinion, I don't think low profile "impact sharpness" is considered "ride". I believe it's considered road noise or vibrations, or choppiness, or whatever you want to call it. Does it affect overall comfort? Of course it does, I just don't think it's ride comfort.
Originally Posted by SW17LS
What I'm describing is not a sound, its definitely ride. When I drive over something and I feel that in my body, thats ride.


Steve is correct. Under some circumstances, a firm-riding car can be library-quiet, and a car with a Cush-Tush, living-room-sofa ride can be noisy. Years ago, a number of Citroens and Peugeots (most French-designed cars, in fact) used to be like that....supremely comfortable seats and ride, but so-so sound insulation.
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Old 05-14-19, 12:56 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by mmarshall View Post

Steve is correct. Under some circumstances, a firm-riding car can be library-quiet, and a car with a Cush-Tush, living-room-sofa ride can be noisy. Years ago, a number of Citroens and Peugeots (most French-designed cars, in fact) used to be like that....supremely comfortable seats and ride, but so-so sound insulation.
Put Michelin X-ice Xi3's on a LS430, and it's noisy. I thought my rear diff had a problem, because I put them on less than 1 mo. after getting the car. Tires do have a lot to do with sound....meaning the LS430 is basically like taking your La-Z-Boy out of your rec room and driving it onto the highway, as designed. Put some aggressive snows on and it's howls more than Warren Zevon drinking a piņa colada at Trader Vic's.
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Old 05-14-19, 06:38 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by Johnhav430 View Post
the LS430 is basically like taking your La-Z-Boy out of your rec room and driving it onto the highway, as designed. Put some aggressive snows on and it's howls more than Warren Zevon drinking a piņa colada at Trader Vic's.
And just think, with those tires, of what the howl would be like on the 430 without all of that excellent sound-insulation, though many 430s are old enough now that the weatherstripping and door/window seals on them are probably wearing out if they haven't been replaced.
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Old 05-14-19, 07:11 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by SW17LS View Post

Interesting YouTube Comparison:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPyg3ilw3KU
Mathis was a great video. Thanks for posting. It kind of goes with the theme of this thread.
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Old 05-15-19, 02:53 AM
  #40  
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Yes, interesting video. NVH, noise, comfort, undulations, crash over irregular pavement, handling, grip, etc. He didn't use the word "ride" once.
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Old 05-15-19, 05:46 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by mmarshall View Post
And just think, with those tires, of what the howl would be like on the 430 without all of that excellent sound-insulation, though many 430s are old enough now that the weatherstripping and door/window seals on them are probably wearing out if they haven't been replaced.
And here's a confession, remember, I got the LS430 in October, I bought the snows/rims in DE the morning before picking up the LS430, and so I probably drove the LS for 2 weeks on all seasons before putting the snows on. Meaning, I did not know the car very well at the time the snows went on.

My wife asked me if something were wrong with the car, and she described the howling sound. She was the first to notice, it's bad, though. Maybe my tunes were cranked up so I did not notice. I spent Nov.-Apr. convinced I needed a new rear diff, that's how bad. But google searches turned up nothing as far as LS' getting new rear diffs or having them rebuilt. Tundras, yes, all day long for howling sounds, but not the LS. To my delight, putting the A/S tires back on, no more sound. One day I'll get Blizzaks. I just figured snow tires should not be made in Japan, i.e. a warm place. But I think the Michelins were made in Thailand. Many reviews called them junk and dangerous lol Michelin ain't always what they once were, kinda like Sony.
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Old 05-15-19, 05:53 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by Johnhav430 View Post

My wife asked me if something were wrong with the car, and she described the howling sound. She was the first to notice, it's bad, though. Maybe my tunes were cranked up so I did not notice. I spent Nov.-Apr. convinced I needed a new rear diff, that's how bad. But google searches turned up nothing as far as LS' getting new rear diffs or having them rebuilt.
No need for confusion.....it's usually pretty simple to tell the difference between tires and a bad rear differential. Tire noise will vary according to road speed and type of pavement surface......generally the more porous, the louder the noise. But it will vary at a constant rate.....the faster or slower you go, the higher the pitch and/or greater the noise. A bad diff won't be like that....its howling will vary more with accelerator pedal pressure/position and engine/transmission load. Any any given road speed, with a bad diff, you could have no noise, a small amount of noise, or a lot of noise, depending on whether the drivetrain is coasting or under load, and how much load.

Years ago, my late Mom had a brand-new 1977 Plymouth Volare (a vehicle with notoriously bad quality control). It had a defective rear diff right off the assembly line. My late Dad, who had bought the car for her, at first wouldn't believe me when I told him there was something wrong with it...he was a die-hard Chrysler and Slant-Six fan, even after they lost their quality in the late 60s. To be honest, I didn't notice any howling on the initial test-drive myself, either, before we took it home....it started the next day or so. When he gave up and took the car back to the shop, a few hundred miles later, under warranty, sure enough, they found a bad diff and replaced it. It ran OK after that...for a while, until the ballast-resistor crapped out and left my Mom on the side of the road...fortunately, not far from her house.

Last edited by mmarshall; 05-15-19 at 06:04 AM.
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Old 05-15-19, 06:01 AM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by mmarshall View Post
No need for confusion.....it's usually pretty simple to tell the difference between tires and a bad rear differential. Tire noise will vary according to road speed and type of pavement surface......generally the more porous, the louder the noise. But it will vary at a constant rate.....the faster or slower you go, the higher the pitch and/or greater the noise. A bad diff won't be like that....its howling will vary more with accelerator pedal pressure/position and engine/transmission load. Any any given road speed, with a bad diff, you could have no noise, a small amount of noise, or a lot of noise, depending on whether the drivetrain is coasting or under load, and how much load.
With the tires, basically over 30 mph all the other noises increase so that it can no longer be heard....but from 0-30 it sounds like a werewolf....or Denzel Washington training Ethan Hawke.

On my Volvo I had a diff and carrier bearing problem. Ignored it for about 8 years so sometimes I wonder if we should be more like Alfred E Neuman?
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Old 05-15-19, 06:07 AM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by Johnhav430 View Post
With the tires, basically over 30 mph all the other noises increase so that it can no longer be heard...?
This seems to be my understanding. Tires do get noisier as they age, I hope my fathers Hankooks stay quiet after the miles add on. I notice the Avalon limited has the Hankook tires, while the Avalon Touring carries Michelin.

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Old 05-15-19, 06:48 AM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by LexsCTJill View Post
This seems to be my understanding. Tires do get noisier as they age, I hope my fathers Hankooks stay quiet after the miles add on. I notice the Avalon limited has the Hankook tires, while the Avalon Touring carries Michelin.
I think I am telling this correctly. When my dad got the Buick Envision, it was a base model--the list was like $39,xxx, and he got it for $30,xxx, and even all the tacked on stuff incl. paperwork were all removed. I thought he did fine. Anyway, his car had Michelin Premier LTX, a premium tire.

The loaded Envisions, they had Hankook Noble 2's. The difference was the loaded one's had 19's and were 235's. His were 225's. Plays perfectly into this thread, the 235's were 50's, the 225's were 60's.

Me, in the above case, since the 19's are wider, I would want them. If they were the same width, I'd want the 18's.

BMW is equally as guilty, on my car, regardless of 19 or 18, it's 255 in the rear, 225 in the front. so in this case, 18 is preferred, to me.
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