LS500h Car and Driver review...
04-24-19, 05:19 PM
#31
Lexus Champion
Cars are dead, y'all. I may get that '17 LS460 sooner than I anticipated. The 430 would never go anywhere, though.
Ditto the GX460...exactly why I want it....OLD, INDESTRUCTIBLE design with a BOF and V8.
Ditto the GX460...exactly why I want it....OLD, INDESTRUCTIBLE design with a BOF and V8.
04-24-19, 05:36 PM
#32
Lexus Fanatic
I don't agree that cars are dead. Just wait till the next recession. People still buy cars. But not the same as in the past.
04-24-19, 05:50 PM
#33
Pole Position
This review should really cause nothing. While I agree that 3.5 hybrid option is the weak sauce cause it's been around since 2007 (typical Toyota PU story) but this reviewer has very little clue about hybrids in general. Complaining about the most sophisticated CVT in production car is the first giveaway. That CVT is integral component of Lexus RWD hybrids and reason why Germans were never able to match it so they just switched to PHEVs where you have very two distinctive powertrains that don't have to work in unison as much as HSD. But German PHEVs in general are crap so if he was complaining about V6 kicking in I'm not sure what he has experienced with four cylinder 740e xDrive cause that exactly what's going on in that car all the time as soon as the battery hits certain level of charge. And what luxury does base 740e xDrive offer compared to loaded LS? Sure it has better switch gear and graphics on screen but what else really?
04-24-19, 06:00 PM
#35
Lexus Fanatic
They would not have saved face with a electric/plug model in the LS range which nobody is asking for, it would not have helped and would likely sell less then a 4th of what the current LS hybrid is selling. Hybrid versions of big luxury cruisers are almost non existent, it was pointless to even offer one, they would have been better off giving it a 8 cylinder or even a 12 cylinder option over a hybrid or electric version.
04-24-19, 07:48 PM
#36
Lexus Champion
This review should really cause nothing. While I agree that 3.5 hybrid option is the weak sauce cause it's been around since 2007 (typical Toyota PU story) but this reviewer has very little clue about hybrids in general. Complaining about the most sophisticated CVT in production car is the first giveaway. That CVT is integral component of Lexus RWD hybrids and reason why Germans were never able to match it so they just switched to PHEVs where you have very two distinctive powertrains that don't have to work in unison as much as HSD. But German PHEVs in general are crap so if he was complaining about V6 kicking in I'm not sure what he has experienced with four cylinder 740e xDrive cause that exactly what's going on in that car all the time as soon as the battery hits certain level of charge. And what luxury does base 740e xDrive offer compared to loaded LS? Sure it has better switch gear and graphics on screen but what else really?
I have become frustrated at all the publications that say hybrid vehicles use CVTs. They are not CVTs, they only hold the engine speed constant, like a CVT. There is no variable gear ratio, in fact there is only one fixed gear ratio. It is how the gasoline engine interacts with the generator that gives the impression of a CVT.
They are Power Split Devices (PSD) and I wish Toyota would stop using "eCVT", which enthusiast publications always read as (belt and pulley) CVT. These publications do not like CVTs and they go to sit in a hybrid with the intention of proving that they drive like belt and pulley CVTs.
Well, you find what you are looking for -- confirmation bias.
Now, I am not saying that the Multi-Stage Hybrid system is perfect. Coupling the PSD (with 3 simulated transmission speeds) with a 4-speed automatic transmission to get a 10-speed transmission (3 simulated gears multiplied by 3 real gears plus 1 real overdrive gear equals 10 speeds) is an extremely difficult engineering task. It seems to me to be one of those tasks that engineers want to do merely to prove that it can be done.
It will take further refinement on the part of Toyota's engineers.
04-24-19, 08:11 PM
#37
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
iTrader: (20)
Enthusiast publications do not like hybrids and do not understand hybrid technology.
I have become frustrated at all the publications that say hybrid vehicles use CVTs. They are not CVTs, they only hold the engine speed constant, like a CVT. There is no variable gear ratio, in fact there is only one fixed gear ratio. It is how the gasoline engine interacts with the generator that gives the impression of a CVT.
They are Power Split Devices (PSD) and I wish Toyota would stop using "eCVT", which enthusiast publications always read as (belt and pulley) CVT. These publications do not like CVTs and they go to sit in a hybrid with the intention of proving that they drive like belt and pulley CVTs.
Well, you find what you are looking for -- confirmation bias.
Now, I am not saying that the Multi-Stage Hybrid system is perfect. Coupling the PSD (with 3 simulated transmission speeds) with a 4-speed automatic transmission to get a 10-speed transmission (3 simulated gears multiplied by 3 real gears plus 1 real overdrive gear equals 10 speeds) is an extremely difficult engineering task. It seems to me to be one of those tasks that engineers want to do merely to prove that it can be done.
It will take further refinement on the part of Toyota's engineers.
I have become frustrated at all the publications that say hybrid vehicles use CVTs. They are not CVTs, they only hold the engine speed constant, like a CVT. There is no variable gear ratio, in fact there is only one fixed gear ratio. It is how the gasoline engine interacts with the generator that gives the impression of a CVT.
They are Power Split Devices (PSD) and I wish Toyota would stop using "eCVT", which enthusiast publications always read as (belt and pulley) CVT. These publications do not like CVTs and they go to sit in a hybrid with the intention of proving that they drive like belt and pulley CVTs.
Well, you find what you are looking for -- confirmation bias.
Now, I am not saying that the Multi-Stage Hybrid system is perfect. Coupling the PSD (with 3 simulated transmission speeds) with a 4-speed automatic transmission to get a 10-speed transmission (3 simulated gears multiplied by 3 real gears plus 1 real overdrive gear equals 10 speeds) is an extremely difficult engineering task. It seems to me to be one of those tasks that engineers want to do merely to prove that it can be done.
It will take further refinement on the part of Toyota's engineers.
04-24-19, 08:34 PM
#38
Lexus Fanatic
Electronically controlled continuously variable transmission (E-CVT) is an intelligent transmission which offers an infinite number of gears within a broad range of ratios, allowing for automatic gear changes.
Just reading some of the Toyota spec documents. This one says there is a power split device as well as a electronic CVT which is included with Toyota hybrid drive. http://www.sze.hu/~szenasy/SZINKRONM...EJL/THS-II.pdf
04-24-19, 08:46 PM
#39
Lexus Fanatic
What's happening is that, by simply dropping their sedan/passenger car lines, GM and Ford are trying to literally force the public out of sedans and into higher-profit SUVs, to try and make more per unit on each vehicle. Some people can see through it, but others are simply letting themselves be taken for pawns.
04-24-19, 08:51 PM
#40
Lexus Fanatic
The answer seems obvious. Like it or not, electrification of vehicles, whether hybrids, extended-range/plug-in hybrids, or full-electric, is going to be the wave of the future.
04-24-19, 08:53 PM
#41
Lexus Fanatic
I think plug in will be next thing. I would get a plug in for my next vehicle if it worked out with costs.
04-24-19, 09:12 PM
#42
Lexus Fanatic
Do you have access to a charger of adequate voltage? That's one of the things that is preventing more sales of pure-electrics. Some people still need that small gas engine to keep the battery charged.
04-24-19, 09:59 PM
#43
Lexus Champion
If I go buy a new LS all I'd do was miss that silky V8.
For us car enthusiasts, I think cars are dead.
It used to be about the drive, how nicely it got you there. Let that V8/12 spoil you. Now it's how much fuel can we save but bandaid it so 90% of consumers won't notice.
Now we have electric cars and lots of "$100k car talk" goes into talking Tesla. Tesla is a joke to me.
Cars are dead, glad I got to live in the "golden era".
Crossovers do zip for me, however the big BOFs do. At least I know I'm getting a capable, rugged structure with a 6.2 NA V8 that will seriously haul when you step on the gas. A serious beast that means business, since cars don't really anymore for me.
This is all just my opinion, of course-- YMMV.
04-24-19, 10:25 PM
#44
Lead Lap
when the likes of bentley, rolls royce, and even lamborghini and ferrari are making SUVs... it's a sad state of affairs
driving in general is sort of dead, which i sort of understand because a modern car simply isn't that fun or engaging to drive with all the electronic intervention, plus you can get those insurance things which hook up to your car and measure things like 'whether rapid braking occured'
what i love about the LS and E55 is that although the electronics are there, they only do behind the scenes stuff that you don't even realize, (like controlling ignition timing, fuel delivery, adjusting the climate control, keeping the xenon headlights aimed, etc...) and anything they might do where you would notice can all be easily switched off with a single quick button press... if you wanna kill yourself, the car won't do anything to stop it, which is how it should be
driving in general is sort of dead, which i sort of understand because a modern car simply isn't that fun or engaging to drive with all the electronic intervention, plus you can get those insurance things which hook up to your car and measure things like 'whether rapid braking occured'
what i love about the LS and E55 is that although the electronics are there, they only do behind the scenes stuff that you don't even realize, (like controlling ignition timing, fuel delivery, adjusting the climate control, keeping the xenon headlights aimed, etc...) and anything they might do where you would notice can all be easily switched off with a single quick button press... if you wanna kill yourself, the car won't do anything to stop it, which is how it should be
04-25-19, 02:26 AM
#45
Lexus Champion
what i love about the LS and E55 is that although the electronics are there, they only do behind the scenes stuff that you don't even realize, (like controlling ignition timing, fuel delivery, adjusting the climate control, keeping the xenon headlights aimed, etc...) and anything they might do where you would notice can all be easily switched off with a single quick button press... if you wanna kill yourself, the car won't do anything to stop it, which is how it should be
Last edited by bitkahuna; 04-25-19 at 06:37 AM.