You're on. I'm at a disadvantage having not driven the G70, but I'll stand pat.

59k for a 3 series....

given how they've grown, 2 series is the new 3 series... 3 series is the new 5 series, etc. ... :D

Yup. I remember when the F30 was introduced, a couple of the magazines went into great detail about how the dimensions were almost identical to the E39 5-series. The 2 still seems a touch smaller than the E30/36/46, but pretty darn close. Far closer to their size than the F30 and G20 are.

Can't disagree.....when the M2 came out, I was in the market for a Golf R potentially (wife was ok with it so all systems cleared signal green), so when I saw the price tag being around $52k, I thought it was totally worth it. The problem was at the time, you couldn't get one for list. Now, the M2 is $61k. Do you get a fully loaded 4 cyl. 330i, and it's capable, the Pilot Sport 4S are not simply a joke, or do you get a M2 for the sheer driving goodness? Keep in mind teens get iPads now north of $1200. I think that's unreasonable, but I see kids with them. So we're big kids we can spend $60k if we want. Big if, but we can.

I test drove the new 2020 M340 today, I loved the way it drove and loved the new dash. Sticker on the one I drove was $59k and it included a good bit of standard features. I also test drove the C43 and S4 and I liked the way the M340 drove the best. Not the best looking or the best tech but definitely liked the way it drove.

How would you compare the new M340i to your IS 350 F-Sport in regards to "fun to driveness, driving feel (including steering feel)"? I know the the IS is no match in regards to overall performance.

Since I was on a test drive I didn’t get a chance to take it on any backroads, mainly some highway runs and a couple exit turns. That said I feel like the car felt a little bigger and heavier than my IS. It also had 18” rims with somewhat large profile tires which I’m sure contributed to the smoothness of it so I don’t think it felt as good as my IS in the handling department but to be honest I didn’t get to push it too much so not really a fair comparison. Since I put on new continental tires on my IS I feel really comfortable with it and it handles great tossing it around on backroads.

These are my quick comparisons of the three cars I test drove:

M340 - Pros - best driving experience, very smooth
- new interior is really nice and a step up from prior models

Cons - Leases right now are terrible, at a sticker of $64,000 with me paying taxes (in MD we pay full tax on price of car up front), tags, first month payment, lease payment comes out to be around $840 (terrible money factor, great residual, ok lease incentive)
- Exterior looks are ok, kind of plain

S4 - Pros - good driving experience
- my favorite interior, had massage seats and many adjustments to the seats including bolsters, etc. I also loved the carbon fiber interior and alcantara seats and doors.
- I loved the virtual cockpit and all of the things you could do with it.
- Had the most features for the money.
- I also loved the amount of customization with the ride, engine, tranny, etc.
- Leases pretty good, with a sticker of $64,000 with the same upfront payment above, the monthly lease would be around $700 (great money factor, terrible residuals, ok lease incentive)

Cons - Out of the three, looks the most boring and looks like it needs to be lowered an inch to look right.

C43 - Pros - Exterior looks the best and most aggressive.
- Leases the best out of the three. With a sticker of $64,000 with the same upfront payment above, the monthly lease would be around $630 (ok money factor, great residual, good lease incentives and since my friend is a GSM at the dealer, great discount)

- Cons - Ride was much rougher than the other three even in comfort mode and a lot more road noise as well.
- Interior was just ok, looked a little dated.
- Didn't like the column shifter.
- No option for heated rear seats or usb ports in the rear.

My wife and I agreed that out of the three with cost not being factored in, we would pick the BMW. I liked the S4 but my wife hated it, she just doesn't like the way it looks and couldn't get comfortable in it. We liked the C43 but agreed it was a little rough and the road noise was a little louder than we would have liked.

3IS is a great handling car with a decent ride.

I don't need 3IS to be as quiet as 4GS, but I wish 3IS was a bit quieter especially from road and wind noise; the glass seems thinner.

How does new 3 Series compare with your 3IS for idle noise, noise at wide open throttle, engine noise on cruising, road noise and wind noise?

I test drove the G20 M Sport on Saturday. The 3IS idles louder to my ears, BMW more noise at wide open throttle by far, but good noise, didn't notice any wind noise. More comfortable in comfort mode than my 3IS in whatever mode. I was surprised at how smooth the run flat 19's were.

No turbo lag, superb transmission, superior to what we have in the 3IS. This should come as no surprise, for the very first time Lexus managed to make the better handling car compared to the 3 Series, whereas the 3er ruled that segment for decades, specifically in driving dynamics. The F30 was the lone letdown.

I can only comment on the M340 and not the 330 but I thought it was relatively quiet in all departments you listed with wide open throttle being louder but not too loud. However, for the most part I also don't think my IS350 is all that loud in any of those departments either, only on certain roads I notice it. Now in comparison to the C43 it seemed way quieter in all departments and a little quieter than the S4.

All in all, if all of these cars cost the same I would take the BMW easily and my wife felt the same way. I went in to the BMW dealership thinking it would be my last choice and when I left it was number one. My wife wasn't with me on my first test drive and when I told her about the BMW she wasn't sure if she wanted a BMW based on our test drive from three years ago. We went back to let her test drive the three cars a few days later and of the three cars she drove, she picked the BMW also if cost wasn't a factor.

If I were you I'd take a car home for a couple of days so you can make a thorough decision. My former colleague had multiple BMWs ranging from a 340 to a 750, that he brought home before settling upon the 535i (the F10). For many of us a car purchase isn't only about us, it's about the spouse, kids, etc. Then, you're also able to make your own decision without any pressure from the CA.

Good to know where the IS stands compared to those cars. :) I have always thought the IS does a great job at suppressing wind noise, but not so much road noise. It can be noticeable on some types of pavement.

I've driven a couple of F30 3-series models, and I am becoming more curious about the new G20. I keep hearing positive things even about the 330i.

My missus has 3.5IS200t too.
I thought her 2.0T idles very quietly, and idles with so much more sound insulation than my 4GS350 3.5 V6.

However, around town at small throttle openings, the 3.5 V6 is torquey and purrs like a cat, while her 2.0T with Otto/Atkinson Cycle not only lacks torque, but it has this annoying throb not found in a Benz C300 2.0T.
At wide throttle, then the IS200t 2.0T spins more satisfactorily smoothly, and with plenty of punch.

Interesting to hear that new 3 Series 2.0T idles even more quietly than IS200t/300.


I probably said that 3IS has more wind/glass noise than I prefer, because we directly compare with our 2IS, 3GS & 4GS.
Before we even bought 4GS, we noticed that all new 3IS had more wind and through the glass noise than old 3GS; we can hear other cars swooshing past my missus' 3.5IS.

Just out of interest, new 4GS idles and more so full throttles much louder than old 3GS, but when cruising at 40 & esp 60, new 4GS much quieter than old 3GS.

Out of interest, my friend's old 2009-16 E350 idles more quietly, but cruises much more loudly than both 3GS and 4GS - the E350 with both more wind and road noise.

Well I went and test drove a new 2018 M3 competition package and the 340ix M-sport back to back and for daily driving duties I liked the 340 better. I was finally able to find a dealer willing to give a good discount to make the lease more in line with what I am looking to pay so I will be ordering a new 340 this weekend. The 340 I test drove this time had 19" wheels and it rode a little rougher than the 18" wheels I drove last time but not much more. I also paid attention to the road noise and exhaust noise and can say that the car was quieter than my IS350. I also noted that the exhaust we pretty quiet on the inside but when you put it in sport mode it was louder with pops on deceleration. A little cheesy but still sounded nice. I can't wait to turn in my IS350 and try out the BMW. I have had Lexus' for 15 years now and I'm just disappointed in their offerings so hopefully this will be a good change. I should've tried a Tesla Model 3 but oh well, maybe next time.