Johnhav430

It's just the feel....like using a Snap On 80 tooth ratchet, or a Harbor Freight Tools one. The cost difference alone is why many people would use Harbor Freight. At the end of the day, the HFT gets the job done, and if it breaks, you could get 8 of them for the price of 1 Snap On. But I like Snap On and ignore my training where marginal benefit is supposed to be > marginal cost. If we all stuck to that rule, I'm not even sure we could drive Accords!

p.s. How many people including myself have multiple Harbor Freight Tools jacks? many YouTubes you can watch have them. They offer incredible value, and even guys who have Snap On chests use them, because $80 v. $1400, the latter just doesn't work for most! I've only had one leak, ever, so they are decent.

Johnhav430

These are the part numbers. The LS' (84040-50110) list for $506.01, because they come in different colors depending on the interior color of the LS. The Corolla's list for $492.67 (84820-01021), because they come in black. But they are the same basic construction, other than color. Also, I don't believe that all switches on the Corolla are auto. I am specifically talking about MY 2006. It may have changed starting in MY 2007. Never is a really long time btw.

Toys4RJill

Johnhav430

That's the issue. They feel cheap. Which is ok in a Corolla, but not in a flagship. OK, I get it, this is a Lexus forum, the last place one would get away with criticizing a Lexus, I won't mention it anymore, few here own a LS430 so what do they care anyway. Wrist slap acknowledged!

To be fair? I am critical of the 2012-2018 BMW 3 series as well. We should all be.

edit p.s. have to do it. One last dime out before I put it to bed. The BMW E9x window switches are much higher quality feeling. The list price is $184.73. I know folks like to fact check here, part number is 61-31-9-217-333, comes in colors to match interior. So many German parts are fractions of the price of Toyota, it's amazing. Good gig for Toyota when you can do that and keep people happy, which they do.

p.p.s. on the BMW, that assy includes the power mirror switch. On the Lexus, that switch routinely goes bad over time, and lists for another $310.88 (84870-50320-XX), on top of the $506.01 for the windows. I just think myths should be debunked with regard to quality and cost across Japan v. Germany, it can't all be scotty.

Toys4RJill

JDR76

Johnhav430

Just google the part numbers for images, physically identical, but as mentioned, LS has color choices, and all auto, v. driver auto.

Maybe this clarifies....ever get issued a ThinkPad from work? The keyboard is unlike the others. They got too expensive, last co. went to HP, as did current co. Now, current co. went HP to Dell. hahahahahahahahaha Which has the best keyboard? The ThinkPads. You or I rather, see them a lot in healthcare who has the deep pockets. It isn't that HP keyboards or Dell keyboards don't work, they don't have the same tactile feel as the ThinkPads (Toughbooks are in another league for high cost and I have a couple given to me by a friend--they make excellent car software laptops, I cringe when I take my ThinkPad out to the car, one drop away from a huge angry loss). I suppose some who own multiple brands of cars may or may not agree, but those who own only one make, could rightly say it's just fine, I don't have any issues with mine, and that's fine too.....it's all good!

Toys4RJill

Johnhav430

I'm mostly kidding, but I feel that the BMW forums handle it the best, the reason being people at some point wanted the best driving car, and when they didn't get it, they spoke up. Like when in 2012 BMW went to stamped steel control arms from forged aluminum. COST CUTTING, no other possible explanation. Everyone else came later, GM in 2018!! There was a thread tracking cost-cutting on the e9x from year to year--a stickie. People didn't simply accept that BMW removed such and such, and it was OK, or if the quality of an item went down, it was ok. Here, it can be, what do you mean it's not of the highest quality?

But sometimes here there's a tendency to think Lexus is the greater than it is. Just look at every time it's questioned where the brand stands in relation to MB or BMW. But the entire point of this thread? Yes, stereotypes are quite often far from truth.

AJT123

I'm only teasing you about the switches even if I don't really understand your beef with them. I'll just add one more thing....if the whole encasement was straight out of a Corolla I would understand. But like I said, they're encased in beautiful wood. They have a quality feel (to me at least), so I just don't understand. But I'm only kidding when I poke at you, of course you have your right to your opinion.

However LS430 was the pinnacle of what Lexus could accomplish, so I don't really think it's a good example of "thinking Lexus is greater than it is". LS430 is literally about the last Lexus to lump into that category.

Johnhav430

I hear you, it's all in good fun.....if we had our way and every car or any car were perfect, it would probably be so expensive it could not be mass produced. The fact that LS430's seem to be bulletproof is saying a lot--I almost think these things were by accident, not design, back then. They did the best they could and being almost bulletproof just happened as a result...

AJT123

Oh no, they were definitely over-engineered. R&D for the 430 started back in 1996 I believe. They used wind tunnels, etc. Isn't it crazy to think such slab-sided and tall car like the 430 literally had the lowest drag of any production car?

Lexus wanted the doors to thunk a certain way, they went to 5 star hotels all over the world to get ideas about the interior, the wood comes from the same tree, etc.

And they used top quality parts. I'm still just amazed that in 15 years I have not had one part fail, other than a door lock actuator. My telescope wheel needs to be greased but that's no big deal, I just pulled the fuse until I can get around to it.

The A/C still blows ice cold, and it still runs like it did the day it came out of the factory.

geko29

Hmm, the rear control arms on my 2011 E90 are stamped steel. As were the ones on my 2000 E46. There are plenty of examples of cost cutting--like how the LCI's always have LED lights, but the "all new" model that follows them never does--but I don't think this is one. Unless they've switched the front thrust arms to stamped steel?

Johnhav430

You actually got me wondering because I know from being under my car the toe arm is clearly steel, when a M3 would be aluminum....it's 1/5 links per this old write-up....

And I don't believe the aluminum on the E9x is forged....

BMW F30 Rear Suspension

https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=659186

The rear suspension of the F30 differs from the E90 considerably. Both are 5 link suspension with the same general geometry but BMW changed the way the links are manufactured. In another bizarre reversion to steel the F30 rear suspension is all steel, the E90 benefited from a lower aluminum arm. The other four links are made of stamped steal, like the E90 but the F30 links appear thinner but also more refined then the E90.

If we wanted to continue along the notion that German car parts can be considerably cheaper than Japanese, I could replace the entire front suspension of my 335i control arm-wise made of forged aluminum, for less than the steel of the LS430....I have a feeling this is part of the Japanese business model in generating revenue via service (imagine the 3rd gen LS had 5k service intervals per the dealer?)...

Johnhav430

If I recall properly, the goals were top speed, quietness, aerodynamics, and fuel economy. Don't know how serious Lexus would be about any of those today except fuel economy. But imho putting such an emphasis on achieving those 4 things led to cars blowing through 300k like it was nothing, 500k, 900k, etc.....(the latter two not nothing but there are examples on the road today)