s4play

iTrader: (2)

So a few of us have the GMC Trucks (Yukon/Escalade ESV) and a few have LX570/ Landcruiser in our neighborhood.

Just curious what you guys thoughts are on the demographics of how owners pick or chose what is the better car for their needs?

Is it off-road? Towing capacity? Seating capacity?

I've personally had a few of the GMC trucks and love them for their versatility and huge size. No other full size SUV can haul 8 people and tow in this fashion. I remember cross shopping the QX80 at one point and the GM told me for what I need, there is no other choice and to go across the street to see GMC!

My buddy just picked up a new Landcruiser for a massive discount and it is such an awesome ride for interior fit and finish. We are a huge Lexus fan and love the quality of the cars but it's too bad Lexus does not make a true GMC full size competitor. For us the reason we didn't even consider the LX is it's tiny 3rd row with the side folding seats.

What are the reasons or thought process for those who did pick a LX or Toyota equivalent?


thanks fellas!

Johnhav430

I don't know anybody who owns the LX570, but several who went Yukon Denali, incl. my uncle.

I myself have been looking online at the LX570 and was rather surprised at the 70k+ prices 3 y.o., but then kbb says trade in is 63k.

With the Yukon, my uncle has had Suburbans since 1996, and besides Audis, he really likes them and is loyal. He got some Chevy diesel pickup and I didn't even bother to ask him for the details, but it was beat up and I'm guessing late 90's or early 2000's.

If I had to sum up my opinion? LX is a capable vehicle but that's not what people buy them for, and they are severely cramped for room. The Yukon is pretty big although the newest gen is smaller than the previous for cargo, namely because the seats fold in the newer one. This is imho loyalty to GM, like the vehicles in general, and like big. my .02

Having driven the latest gen of Suburban, I was impressed by the 25 mpg we achieved in the real world, with 4WD kept engaged. Contrast to when my uncle had a 2002, we got around 16 highway.

Toys4RJill

jrmckinley

We own a 2010 LX570 that we bought approx 3 years ago - it had about 60k miles when we purchased it and has 110k now. We had a GX and were looking for more room so started shopping full size SUV's like the Tahoe/Yukon and the Suburban/Yukon XL, QX80, Sequoia, etc. We also looked at Range Rover but it wasn't a real contender due to my concerns over reliability and it not being big enough for our anticipated needs.

The main reason we ultimately chose the LX is how long we tend to keep our vehicles - I always buy used and hold on to cars for at least 5 years, so I look for things that age well (no squeaks, no rattles), hold resale pretty well, have a design that I think will not look too out-dated towards the end of ownership, and (most importantly) will be reliable and somewhat predictable in maintenance & repair costs. I also wanted something that was tank-like in its ability to be safe in event of an accident. With those as our primary drivers, the LX/Cruiser was an easy winner.

Other reasons that influenced our decision were the overall ride quality and maneuvering of the LX compared to the others. I rent Tahoe's for work occasionally and like them quite a bit- I think they probably drive a bit better on the highway than our (2010) LX, but they feel harder to navigate and get in & out of parking spaces than our LX - I find the LX to be surprisingly easy to park, parallel park, etc. The 3rd row jump seat design is terrible and constantly annoys me, but it's really my only gripe about the LX and it was worth it to us having that be our sacrifice.

Another thing I like about owning an LX is I don't see many on the road. QX80's, Tahoes, Yukons, etc. are everywhere (especially QX80's in my city) - but you don't really see many Cruisers or LX's and there's something I like about having something different than everyone else.

Johnhav430

Did you have zero issues on your LX570 since you got it? That would not surprise me. In looking online it actually seemed like 2014 was in the sweet spot. I chose (in my what if fantasy) 2016 because it was refreshed and maybe tranny was 10 spd or something. My buddy insists who cares about the reliability look at the TCO it's not reasonable...(esp given the lack of room when compared to others)

jrmckinley

Only two issues (knock on wood) since we bought it- and nothing other than routine maintenance every 5k miles while 1st owner had it as I looked at the service history before purchasing.
1) hydraulic suspension was leaking and got replaced free under CPO at 100k miles. Receipt was around $2,300 if I remember correctly - supposedly this is incredibly rare according to the Lexus repair guys and others on the LX forum here. Props to my Toyota service guy for spotting it!
2) 3 weeks ago had a jump seat latch replaced - something was malfunctioning with it. Covered under CPO, $700ish. Perfect example of it being over-engineered - I hate that the only way to make the jump seats fold up to the side is via power. Something is bound to fail.

Not sure I understand the TCO comment. I'd argue that TCO is arguably the best on an LX or LC due to how they tend to hold their value combined with minimal expense of maintenance. What else are you (or your buddy) factoring in when thinking through TCO?

Stroock639

my friend (who likes to like american cars and dislike foreign cars) was a GM tech for over a year and he didn't have enough bad things to say about GM quality

before that though i was a salesman at toyota and i persuaded him to come to that dealership as a tech, and it annoyed him that he was forced to admit how the toyota products were noticeably better

at the end of the day all those GM trucks are just variations of the tahoe, whereas the land cruiser is far more capable product built to much higher standards

coolsaber

The powertrain on the current GM portofolio for the vehicles are terrible, the escalade especially of folks being locked out of gears random errors. I`d say if you intend to lease it, pick up a GM, worst comes and you dump it. LC, is at the near end of its life cycle, so its basically set to give you eons of use with little to no issues.

AJT123

I'm a Yukon and LS430 driver so this is tough.

IMO an LX will last longer and give you less problems.....but they're just invisible next to an Escalade. Escalade is just the king of the road in my eyes, it's an old design but IDK how the next one could possibly look any better. The Denali is the next best looking in my eyes.

Whomever said the powertrains are a weak spot, um, an Escalade runs 0-60 in less than 6 seconds, sounding glorious as it does so. Crown jewel of an engine.

The 6.2 would be a big reason I would probably buy the GM truck. That's one of the most desirable motors on the planet IMO, especially since now moaning 4 cylinders are taking over. And I also just love the sheer presence the high end GM trucks possess.

My 2003 Yukon has stupid things broken like the speedo and CD player, my seat heater, but it's solid as a rock mechanically. It's only 285hp, but I quite enjoy the engine. LS motors prove that pushrods work. It revs just as easily and happily as my DOHC V8 in my LS430. I can't even imagine flooring an Escalade or Denali, and the grin that would put on my face.

coolsaber

Powertrain reliability and performance are two different things. I believe you only get one or the other, and hence why there is multipe page threads on the escalade forums about the transmission, while I have yet to see much on the LX forums about this or ih8mud Lc200 forums.

We also clearly define things quite differently, like a non-functional speedo is a stupid thing to you, but I assume most buyers, would like their speedo working.

AJT123

I clearly admitted that an LX will be more reliable. Let GM get the bugs out of this new transmission and it'll be fine. That said I'm not a fan of these insane complex transmissions, either. Progress peaked with the 6 speed auto as far as I'm concerned. GM trucks run forever, that's pretty much common knowledge. The 6.2 is a monster, a Corvette engine in your bad *** SUV.

LX is very old by now, don't get me wrong I hold it in high regard, but it's almost a 12 year old design. I also believe the GM trucks are superior for towing, they were made for that in the way the LC/LX were made for the jungle. I tow heavy boats so it would be important to me.

And no, I don't care that my speedo doesn't work. Actually, none of the gauges work except the tach, which is all I care about. There's a redundant digital display that would alert me of any problems. It's a 16 year old truck that's half a beater. I could fix it for $100 if i wanted to. What matters is it starts right up and drives fine, it's not a very complex vehicle. It's towed boats for 16 years on the same transmission. It'll run forever. Never in the shop, for anything. And when it is time to repair/maintain, costs are minimal. I paid $100 last year to change transmission fluid. I honestly don't think I've even changed the spark plugs yet. Love the way the V8 sounds, and that it's American made.

Johnhav430

On the TCO a LX570 is six figures, yes six figures, for years 1-5! Granted many of us might get something like that used. My buddy is a fan of the Highlander, although he drives a Navigator L with a Triton 5.4. The highlander is 43k years 1-5. If the LX570 is totally reliable, it looks to me like buying it 5 y.o. is smart, as the depreciation does not seem to drop off much from years 3,4,5.

It does sound like the car is nearly 100% reliable as to be expected....

On a captains chair, I can tell you that GM is no cheaper, and they take about 1 year to resolve it, talk about incompetent (because there are like 5 visits and months waiting for parts before they can simply replace--I love how BMW you say hey c'mon just replace it, ok? And an issue is resolved the 2nd visit even though BMW's TSB tells dealer do not replace the part reprogram the vehicle). So if your Lexus dealer got that fixed quickly, hats off--this is pertinent to the LX v. GMC debate. GMC service is very incompetent (doesn't affect my uncle as he DIYs everything to include putting in new main bearings on his 1995 which seized due to the oil cooler hose bursting). I would suggest the old mark your oil filter trick if you have them change your oil. lol (I caught them). One thing my uncle was unable to fix DIY, as was a coworker's husband (both 1995-1998 Suburbans), was the rear AC. I guess that is cost prohibitive.

Johnhav430

I think that's the one my uncle loaned us as a honeymoon present lol because my wife has her sister, bff and boyfriend, father, and nephew and niece, and brother, accompany us on our honeymoon. I have to believe there are people out there whose lives are weirder than my own, just as Christopher Walken had to have more cowbell. I have to believe that. Having captains chairs, we put a stool in between for another passenger to sit. And the thing drove flawlessly (it was only 5 y.o. at the time). I do remember regular being over $3.50/gal. back then and kinda bumming over the 16 highway.

For my wedding, my wife dealed with the limo, so I insisted she get it in writing--"2007 or newer Escalade" because I wanted our limo to have over 400 HP haha (wedding was April 2008 and I was afraid they'd send an '06 or something).

With that being said I don't want to own an Escalade based on what I've seen on YouTube....

Zmon

iTrader: (2)

I bought my Denali new a few years ago. From the horrible dealers, poorly aligned trim and stuff (bottom of the driver door stuck out a bit, headliner droops a bit near the sunroof, chrome trunk trim loose within 2k miles, 22 inch rim inserts clicking when turning), navigation randomly locking up, junk transmission (vibration felt at 10-40 mph when accelerating, supposedly a "new" fluid was developed to fix this on their 8 speeds, makes you wonder why they dumped the 8 speed so quick for the 10 speed), I would not recommend one again. Also, huge lack of options that are present in other vehicles in this price range (e.g. panoramic roof, cameras, higher tier sound system, etc). You would think GM would put some more money into quality control if they're letting $70k+ trucks run off their plants like this.

The only reason I didn't buy an LX was because it was already fairly long in the tooth, and that model is still kicking around today (plus the whole $70k vs nearly $100k thing). As it is, I was already looking at replacing the RX with a newer model, but I think I might get rid of this POS instead. Don't get lured into the whole "looks nice" thing with GM's junk. I should have known better after the whole debacle I had with an 07 Envoy Denali I bought new years ago that had to be lemoned, but I got lured in only to be let down again.

Johnhav430

I honestly do not understand the dealers at all. Now granted, I had a long talk with the service manager at the GMC where I bought the Lexus used. He was a great guy, fixed the door actuator and brakes on the Lexus for free, called when he said he was gonna (never had that happen on a GMC service), etc. He said it's stupid what they're given to work with. They have to still try to sell people with a good/better/best model. He used brake rotors as an example, you have advantage, professional, and OE, what the **** does a customer care, they're brake rotors (only geeks like I would OE wont rust the same way the other two would). But to get service at a Buick/GMC dealer is like walking into 1976. Avoid eye contact, and let a customer stand there unacknowledged for 5-10 minutes. I know 100% that poor surveys do not result in any follow-up. One valet told me, you ought to see how upset people are when they've dropped $82k on a Yukon Denali, and they get treated like ****. Now there is an unsolvable wind buffetting noise, you should see how many of these come back under warranty and nothing is done. I don't even wish GMC service on people I dislike, it's too harsh.

Oh I have to mention this one, get that coupon postcard from the local dealer. Coolant service blah blah blah $59.95. Service advisor says no way we can do that. I said, what do you mean, it has your dealer's name on it? He said I know, I have no idea why you were sent that, we're not going to do that service for $60, maybe $130. I said hey give my my keys back I'll go elsewhere. He goes hold on, let me talk to the manager, maybe we can work something out, like $110. hahahahahahahahahahahaha can't make this up.

I overheard another guy go to an advisor, "I'll be dead before you fix my problem." Ouch, and the advisor just walked away, that was an opportunity to assure the customer that the problem would be handled. The gentlemen was in fact elderly.