King Alex, Hyundai test drive, and Hyundai’s misleading warranty - Page 4 - ClubLexus - Lexus Forum Discussion

Go Back  ClubLexus - Lexus Forum Discussion > General Forums > Car Chat
King Alex, Hyundai test drive, and Hyundai’s misleading warranty >

King Alex, Hyundai test drive, and Hyundai’s misleading warranty

Notices
Car Chat General discussion about Lexus, other auto manufacturers and automotive news.
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

King Alex, Hyundai test drive, and Hyundai’s misleading warranty

 
Old 02-12-19, 09:44 AM
  #46  
tex2670
Lexus Fanatic
 
tex2670's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Southeastern PA
Posts: 5,599
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by LexsCTJill View Post
I am not sure what the problem is at this point. I was under the impression that the Hyundai 5 year warranty was a complete warranty, but it is not. It is a limited warranty with a few exclusions. I am sure the Toyota warranty has the same similar exclusions,



But it is not a bumper to bumper. Its a limited policy, that is where my confusion was. You just made the error of thinking that the advertising tag is bumper to bumper. Toyota's warranty is a limited warranty as well.
"Bumper to bumper" is an auto industry marketing term.

Here is a link to a Honda warranty booklet from 2013. It has the exact same language.
https://owners.honda.com/Documentum/...s/AWL47382.pdf

Page from Buick's website for its 4/50K "Limited Bumper to Bumper Warranty"
https://www.buick.com/warranty-information

Subaru New Vehicle Limited Warranty:
https://www.subaru.com/owners/vehicl...ties-2018.html

Ford New Vehicle Limited Warranty:
http://www.fordservicecontent.com/Fo...US_09_2018.pdf

So can we stop calling Hyundai's warranty "misleading"?

Last edited by tex2670; 02-12-19 at 09:53 AM.
tex2670 is offline  
Old 02-12-19, 09:52 AM
  #47  
LexBob2
Lexus Fanatic
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Illinois
Posts: 8,673
Thanked 22 Times in 21 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by tex2670 View Post
You are just falling into the "bumper to bumper" marketing trap.

Here is a link to a Honda warranty booklet from 2013. It has the exact same language.
https://owners.honda.com/Documentum/...s/AWL47382.pdf

Page from Buick's website for its 4/50K "Limited Bumper to Bumper Warranty"
https://www.buick.com/warranty-information

Subaru New Vehicle Limited Warranty:
https://www.subaru.com/owners/vehicl...ties-2018.html

Ford New Vehicle Limited Warranty:
http://www.fordservicecontent.com/Fo...US_09_2018.pdf

Are we going to keep debating Hyundai's "misleading" warranties?

And honestly, no competent self-respecting lawyer would allow any car company's warranty to just be called "bumper to bumper" and leave it at that.
I sure hope not.
LexBob2 is online now  
Old 02-12-19, 09:53 AM
  #48  
bitkahuna
resisting entropy
iTrader: (20)
 
bitkahuna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Present
Posts: 55,013
Thanked 58 Times in 50 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by LexsCTJill View Post
No need to be sorry. If you look back at my comments, I am highly critical of two things; one, CR reviews are not "day and date" with other car reviewers. And two, their reliability data methods are not disclosed. Does not mean their information is not valid, it means it is open for interpretation of how valid. Where I was looking about CR satisfaction is where they claim what the owners are saying. Does this make sense to you?
Originally Posted by LexsCTJill View Post
So how do you (yourself personally) determine how valid these surveys are?
Originally Posted by LexsCTJill View Post
I agree. So my criticism of CR is that they lack transparency in their reliability data, and their satisfaction data. That does not mean their information is worthless, it means that I have some questions about it. Their reviews which are rarely ever released on the day of the press embargo are more suspect than their other data.
Originally Posted by LexsCTJill View Post
Fair enough. I don't think that is very effective way to judge their information.
agree 100% with everything you said about CR... not worthless, but definitely not transparent and definitely shouldn't be blindly accepted without questioning and comparing.
bitkahuna is offline  
Old 02-12-19, 10:26 AM
  #49  
LexsCTJill
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: ON
Posts: 11,240
Thanked 36 Times in 29 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by bitkahuna View Post
agree 100% with everything you said about CR... not worthless, but definitely not transparent and definitely shouldn't be blindly accepted without questioning and comparing.
Thanks.

Same applies to JD Power, word of mouth, internet forums etc etc
LexsCTJill is online now  
Old 02-12-19, 11:00 AM
  #50  
Johnhav430
Lexus Fanatic
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: PA
Posts: 6,250
Thanked 206 Times in 194 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by tex2670 View Post
"Bumper to bumper" is an auto industry marketing term.

Here is a link to a Honda warranty booklet from 2013. It has the exact same language.
https://owners.honda.com/Documentum/...s/AWL47382.pdf

Page from Buick's website for its 4/50K "Limited Bumper to Bumper Warranty"
https://www.buick.com/warranty-information

Subaru New Vehicle Limited Warranty:
https://www.subaru.com/owners/vehicl...ties-2018.html

Ford New Vehicle Limited Warranty:
http://www.fordservicecontent.com/Fo...US_09_2018.pdf

So can we stop calling Hyundai's warranty "misleading"?
They all have their quirks. The most at ease I felt was with a 2007 BMW, because at that time, it was 4/50 bumper to bumper, and free maintenance. What could a dealer possibly exclude? Well the fact that you heard your rear brakes squealing at 20k. That you think your steering wheel is slightly off to the left. That you heard a rattle from the right pass door.

So is that misleading, not really. Then, as bad as GMC is? With an extended warranty they cover a lot more than BMW does, and they "let it go" if they can't find the problem, whereas BMW charges a diagnostic. At the end of the day I think people are going to get what their wallet can afford, and what makes them feel at ease. Because humans are in fact risk averse. Hence the saying, "Be greedy when others are fearful." I know if you had BMW 2007 coverage, with Lexus customer service, I'd be running to it.
Johnhav430 is offline  
Old 02-12-19, 12:54 PM
  #51  
mmarshall
Lexus Fanatic
 
mmarshall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Virginia/D.C. suburbs
Posts: 73,034
Thanked 66 Times in 66 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by LexsCTJill View Post
So how do you (yourself personally) determine how valid these surveys are?
Partly from my own experience, partly from that of others I have shopped with or advised, partly from that of my family, partly from that of other sources (Edmund's, J.D. Power, etc...), and, of course, partly from my colleagues here in Car Chat.
mmarshall is offline  
Old 02-12-19, 01:21 PM
  #52  
swajames
Pole Position
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: CA
Posts: 388
Thanked 4 Times in 2 Posts
Default

I never quite get the vitriol directed at CR or the misinformation (such as CR giving minor issues the same weight as major ones, which they don't) which always gets rolled out whenever they come up. No sensible person is going to rely solely on any other opinions or conclusions when car shopping, but CR is more transparent than most when it comes to their approach regarding their surveys. Add in that unlike pretty much every other reviewer they don't take advertising. have their own test track, and buy (anonymously) the cars they review I'd say a lot of the vitriol is misdirected,

Some info here: https://www.consumerreports.org/cars...ts-tests-cars/

That's reasonably transparent. The data they gather is proprietary in the aggregate, and I'm guessing most wouldn't have the statistical chops to fully understand it anyway.

As an aside, some don't realize you don't necessarily need a sample size of much more than 1000 people to get a reasonably representative view on the opinions of the entire adult population of the US, never mind if a car is reasonably reliable or not.
swajames is online now  
Old 02-12-19, 01:29 PM
  #53  
LexsCTJill
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: ON
Posts: 11,240
Thanked 36 Times in 29 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by swajames View Post

As an aside, some don't realize you don't necessarily need a sample size of much more than 1000 people to get a reasonably representative view on the opinions of the entire adult population of the US, never mind if a car is reasonably reliable or not.
Your point of view is valid. But nobody knows what the sample size is for one particular model. Do you think a scholarly professor would hold their data valid? I don't think so, because we have no idea how anything is done.
LexsCTJill is online now  
Old 02-12-19, 01:54 PM
  #54  
tex2670
Lexus Fanatic
 
tex2670's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Southeastern PA
Posts: 5,599
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by LexsCTJill View Post
Your point of view is valid. But nobody knows what the sample size is for one particular model. Do you think a scholarly professor would hold their data valid? I don't think so, because we have no idea how anything is done.
They are not applying for government funding. They don't have to disclose anything to anyone. If their data is bad, they'd get their predictions wrong--a lot. And they'd be out of business.

You don't have to like them; you don't have to rely on them. But either you trust their info, or you don't. Which was my point above--if you believe the data is suspect, then how can you cite to it to support a point?
tex2670 is offline  
Old 02-12-19, 01:56 PM
  #55  
bitkahuna
resisting entropy
iTrader: (20)
 
bitkahuna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Present
Posts: 55,013
Thanked 58 Times in 50 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by swajames View Post
I never quite get the vitriol directed at CR or the misinformation (such as CR giving minor issues the same weight as major ones, which they don't) which always gets rolled out whenever they come up. No sensible person is going to rely solely on any other opinions or conclusions when car shopping, but CR is more transparent than most when it comes to their approach regarding their surveys. Add in that unlike pretty much every other reviewer they don't take advertising. have their own test track, and buy (anonymously) the cars they review I'd say a lot of the vitriol is misdirected,

Some info here: https://www.consumerreports.org/cars...ts-tests-cars/

That's reasonably transparent. The data they gather is proprietary in the aggregate, and I'm guessing most wouldn't have the statistical chops to fully understand it anyway.

As an aside, some don't realize you don't necessarily need a sample size of much more than 1000 people to get a reasonably representative view on the opinions of the entire adult population of the US, never mind if a car is reasonably reliable or not.
how they test cars is very different than how the analyze the results of subjective surveys from their own subscribers, who already 'fit a demographic'. how many 25 year olds do you think subscribe to CR? i believe CR is useful to cautious and typically older consumers, and also serves to validate the purchases made too, so the surveys become more of an echo chamber of 'sensible shoppers' than the general public.

as for survey sample size, i doubt they get a thousand veyron or even 911 turbo surveys back.

and i "never quite get" the 'defenders of the flame' who always bring up posts like yours when CR is mentioned and or, shock, criticized or dismissed.
bitkahuna is offline  
Old 02-12-19, 02:01 PM
  #56  
LexsCTJill
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: ON
Posts: 11,240
Thanked 36 Times in 29 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by tex2670 View Post
But either you trust their info, or you don't.
This ^^^ is black and white. Its never black and white. I already told you, without knowing their data, the customer satisfaction claim needs to be questioned for validity.
LexsCTJill is online now  
Old 02-12-19, 02:36 PM
  #57  
tex2670
Lexus Fanatic
 
tex2670's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Southeastern PA
Posts: 5,599
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by LexsCTJill View Post
This ^^^ is black and white. Its never black and white. I already told you, without knowing their data, the customer satisfaction claim needs to be questioned for validity.
How is "questioned for validity" different from "I don't trust it"?

What you are saying, I think, is "I'll only believe it if JD Power, Alex on Autos, Motor Week, etc., etc, etc, all say the same thing."

Frankly, trusting a source is black and white. Trusting a source doesn't mean that the source is correct 100% of the time. Trusting a source means that, if that's the only data you have, you would tend to believe it. You do not, when it comes to CR. So, you don't trust CR.

I trust what I read in the NY Times. That doesn't mean they won't have to sometimes print a retraction.

I do not trust what I read in the National Enquirer. That doesn't mean that they never have a true story.

Last edited by tex2670; 02-12-19 at 03:42 PM.
tex2670 is offline  
Old 02-12-19, 02:39 PM
  #58  
tex2670
Lexus Fanatic
 
tex2670's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Southeastern PA
Posts: 5,599
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by bitkahuna View Post

as for survey sample size, i doubt they get a thousand veyron or even 911 turbo surveys back.
Which is why you won't see them print reliability data on those cars. There's even some mainstream cars that they print "Insufficient Data". Do I know what that tipping point is? No. But again, if their sample sizes were too small in general, they'd get it wrong enough times that they'd have a reputation for being wrong more than right. And they'd fail.
tex2670 is offline  
Old 02-12-19, 03:43 PM
  #59  
LexsCTJill
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: ON
Posts: 11,240
Thanked 36 Times in 29 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by tex2670 View Post
How is "questioned for validity" different from "I don't trust it"?

What you are saying, I think, is "I'll only believe it if JD Power, Alex on Autos, Motor Week, etc., etc, etc, all say the same thing."

.
I see what you mean on how it is confusing. I just like to know what type of data CR is using to come to their conclusions, whats the demographic, whats the sample size etc etc. When I read anything about sample sizes and surveys etc etc, I immediately look for validity, you cannot infer anything from their data, just what they report. If they would provide that data, then their information becomes even more valuable. Compared to Alex on Autos, Motor Week, etc, there satisfaction or reliability data is not worth as much as CR currently is. Does this sort of make sense? In court for example, a judge or jury can believe some evidence, none of the evidence or part of the evidence.

So here is the dilemma, some members on here really, really push Hyundai, the press seems to like Hyundai but not love them, Alex on Autos sort of has a bit of a bias towards KIA and Hyundai which makes sense as his demographics might help dictate that, Hyundai is struggling with profits, the new Elantra has a cash back offer and is 0% financing with a long 5 year warranty, CR seems to grade the Hyundai Hyundai Elantra pretty good but not great (less weight because they review after everyone else has) and their reliability is average and satisfaction is not higher that of the Toyota I would be replacing. So this is how I would come to a conclusion on other sources opinions.

If I hear rebate, and its a big rebate. I start to wonder about why people are not buying something.

For example: Motor Trend publishes all of their road test data. So, when they say a car is 70dbs and 50mph, you can compare the numbers along with other data against other cars. Its also on the same test track. Alex says he measures the data. Doug Demuro just says something is quiet or not. And Motor Week just says it too. To me, the Motor Trend information is more valuable than the others. It would be interesting to see what CR's data is when they mention a car is quiet among other things.

Last edited by LexsCTJill; 02-12-19 at 03:56 PM.
LexsCTJill is online now  
Old 02-12-19, 04:03 PM
  #60  
bitkahuna
resisting entropy
iTrader: (20)
 
bitkahuna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Present
Posts: 55,013
Thanked 58 Times in 50 Posts
Default

tex2670, you've made your point... thank you, but let's get back on topic.
bitkahuna is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us About Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

© 2019 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from community experts
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: