SW17LS

V12s will always be smoother

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

The 1GZ-FE was a 5.0L V12 with 276-280hp due to the Japanese Manufacturers Agreement (Since 1989, Japanese automakers have all endorsed—at least on paper—a kind of gentlemen's agreement that limited their advertised horsepower to 276 on domestically produced vehicles. Their primary goal was to avoid a horsepower war in a country where the maximum speed limit is 62 mph). Real horsepower was estimated to be around 308hp. Torque was around 355ft-lbs and 295ft-lbs available as low as 1200 rpm. Nowhere near Rolls-Royce V12 kind of power. Just smooth effortless acceleration. I've always felt the IS250 which had four cylinder power but two extra cylinders was to make it a smoother operator.

AJT123

Yep, and all that R&D etc. went into a motor just for one car for only one market, impressive. The power stats won't blow anyone away but I could only imagine the drive. Absolutely it could be argued that Lexus made the smoothest V8, I can't imagine a V12.

IS250 came around when 204hp wasn't terrible. By the end of that design yes it was seriously, seriously lacking in power relative to the competition. I've had a few loaners and I wouldn't call them slow, but we have a 350 and the difference is unbelievable. I never drive our IS350 bc I'll get into trouble with it, lol. The thing just flies, it's insane. I've seen published 0-60 times of 4.9 seconds for that model and believe it.

mmarshall

And, I might add that the nice engine you describe is the classic Toyota/Lexus 3.5L V6.......the engine that so many folks here on Car Chat like to pan as "inadequate" and "outdated". That's simply nonsense.

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

No that engine is the transverse 2GR-FE think ES/RX/Avalon. The one he described in the IS is the 2GR-FSE with direct injection and port injection. Now recently ToMoCo uses 2GR-FKS which combines the D-4S system from the 2GR-FSE with the simulated on-demand Atkinson cycle used in the 2UR-GSE.

mmarshall

Yes, there are some transverse/longitudinal differences, but it's the same basic block, isn't it?

Toys4RJill

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

Which is why I said ToMoCo now uses 2GR-FKS

AJT123

Whatever it is, it works lol. I just can't resist flooring it every time I drive it, and, well, you're up to super illegal speeds in a blink. LS makes you just want to cruise and waft around; this thing wants you to get crazy lol.

I'm probably splitting hairs and/or am spoiled by my 4.3L V8 but it's not the smoothest V6 I've ever had--don't get me wrong, it's not NOT smooth, but I've had a smoother V6 before in my old 2006 Acura TL. Power wise, though, it's annihilated by the Lexus 3.5.

Toys4RJill

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a2...interior-test/

2019 Bentley Bentayga V-8: 61
2019 BMW X7 xDrive40i: 64
2019 BMW X7 xDrive50i: 64
2019 Audi Q8: 64
2017 Mercedes-Benz GLS450: 65
2017 Bentley Bentayga: 65
2018 Lincoln Navigator: 66
2018 Lexus LX570: 66
2016 Cadillac Escalade Platinum: 67
2019 Porsche Cayenne S: 69

2019 Audi A8L: 64
2018 Mercedes-Maybach S560: 65
2011 Rolls-Royce Ghost: 65
2018 Mercedes-Benz S450: 66
2018 Lexus LS500 F Sport AWD: 66
2018 Tesla Model S 100D: 68

mmarshall

Interesting. With virtually no engine noise, one would probably expect the Tesla to be the quietest. Perhaps (?) it's some of that sloppy quality-control letting in wind and road noise from poor fits.

SW17LS

My experience with Teslas is that they aren't quiet on the highway really at all.

I'm interested in driving an X7...

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

perhaps but doesn't have to be 'sloppy quality control'... noise can come from simply not enough insulation in wheel wells, fenders, around firewall, doors, floors, etc.

given the less than luxurious interior of the S, the fact it was their first volume vehicle, and the fact that, as you say, the electric engines are very quiet, i wouldn't expect they spent a lot of time and expense refining the noise insulation.

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

The Model S is notorious for having passenger side wind noise, especially near the little delta window at speeds around 70-80mph. Don't know if there has been a fix for it, but my friends 75D had that problem too.

Sulu

...and not having access to a wind tunnel to fine tune the airflow over the vehicle. As a small automaker, Tesla probably does not have access to a wind tunnel.