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Who has the quietest brand?

 
Old 12-13-18, 08:27 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by SW17LS View Post
For instance look up a car and look at all the interior noise level readings across publications. They're totally different. Edmunds said 56 for the LS600h, C&D says 64...for example. .
Which is why I said I wanted to see what Motor Trend reports for the same cars. And yes, Edmunds is quite different, but I am not sure where they place the measuring meter. Car and Driver places it at the drivers ear level. And yes, personal experiences are important, but they can certainly be biased. I am glad you brought some of ^^ up. Itís a good discussion.
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Old 12-13-18, 08:35 PM
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You can't engineer out "bias" in what somebody perceives. Everybody is different, everybody's hearing is different. People like different sounds, they have different frequencies that they hear and that annoy them. Its not an objective repeatable figure like a 0-60 time or a 1/4 mile time or a skidpad reading.

If you have 68 dB and all of that sound pressure is down at a low frequency that people cant hear as well, that car will feel quieter inside than a car that has a sound pressure reading of 64 but that sound is at frequencies people's hearing is more attune to.

For instance, 100 db at 100 Hz of frequency is equivalent to only 80 dB at 1000 Hz of frequency insofar as it is interpreted by human ears. But, with a dB meter its going to read "100".
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Old 12-13-18, 08:45 PM
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Originally Posted by SW17LS View Post
You can't engineer out "bias" in what somebody perceives. Everybody is different, everybody's hearing is different. People like different sounds, they have different frequencies that they hear and that annoy them. Its not an objective repeatable figure like a 0-60 time or a 1/4 mile time or a skidpad reading.

If you have 68 dB and all of that sound pressure is down at a low frequency that people cant hear as well, that car will feel quieter inside than a car that has a sound pressure reading of 64 but that sound is at frequencies people's hearing is more attune to.

For instance, 100 db at 100 Hz of frequency is equivalent to only 80 dB at 1000 Hz of frequency insofar as it is interpreted by human ears. But, with a dB meter its going to read "100".
You really are overthinking all of this. This is just a fun discussion. The numbers from Car and Driver speak for themselves and should be taken for what they are. Not at all scientific and not much comment. At least they are measured on the same test track with some sort of standard of where they place the DB meter. Itís also nice to see the reported weather data as well.

Gonna move on from your posts for a while, and see what other members in the forum have to say.

Last edited by LexsCTJill; 12-13-18 at 09:15 PM.
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Old 12-13-18, 09:32 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by LexsCTJill View Post
Gonna move on from your posts for a while, and see what other members in the forum have to say.
i say listen to steve

temperature is another thing that can feel different depending on a variety of conditions (humidity, elevation, etc...), just because a thermometer reads 72 degf in two separate places doesn't mean you'll feel exactly the same in both spots
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Old 12-13-18, 09:42 PM
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Originally Posted by LexsCTJill View Post
Gonna move on from your posts for a while, and see what other members in the forum have to say.
I'm generally not a big one for numbers when it comes to measuring things like that. It's nice if numbers actually can verify it, but I find that my two ears are generally the best indicator if I'm comfortable, noise-wise, in a car or not. And those ears are still reliable.....I'm not wearing a hearing aid yet LOL.
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Old 12-13-18, 09:43 PM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by Stroock639 View Post
i say listen to steve

temperature is another thing that can feel different depending on a variety of conditions (humidity, elevation, etc...), just because a thermometer reads 72 degf in two separate places doesn't mean you'll feel exactly the same in both spots
But we are not talking about temperatures. But thanks. This discussion does not have to be scientific. These numbers by car and driver are to give some sort of reference. What are limitations of these numbers, I think that is being discussed. I like the fact that there is some sort of method by car and driver in this circumstance. Any set of data poses drawbacks.
Nothing is absolute.

Last edited by LexsCTJill; 12-13-18 at 10:15 PM.
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Old 12-13-18, 09:45 PM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by LexsCTJill View Post
Nothing is absolute.
That statement is self-contradicting.
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Old 12-13-18, 10:18 PM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by mmarshall View Post
I'm generally not a big one for numbers when it comes to measuring things like that. It's nice if numbers actually can verify it, but I find that my two ears are generally the best indicator if I'm comfortable, noise-wise, in a car or not. And those ears are still reliable.....I'm not wearing a hearing aid yet LOL.
Fair points. But your ears backed with your own measurements are more valid than just what you think you heard. Add in some sort of standardized method and it. It becomes even more valid IMO.

in the case of the Car and Driver numbers, there are no opinions by the testers. Just data. I think it is a good alternative to simple stated opinion which is what must reviews provide.

Is Lexus resting on their past reputation? The numbers seem to suggest the new LS and ES are not as quiet as their previous models, yet Lincoln has made some progress based on previous data.

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Old 12-13-18, 10:29 PM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by LexsCTJill View Post
But we are not talking about temperatures. But thanks.
yes thank you i'm aware, my point is that saying this was quieter is relative just like saying this feels hotter, there are more factors at play than simply the number of decibels or degrees


Originally Posted by LexsCTJill View Post
This discussion does not have to be scientific.
it literally does...
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Old 12-13-18, 10:32 PM
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Originally Posted by bitkahuna View Post
That statement is self-contradicting.
once again, the internet comes to the rescue


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Old 12-13-18, 10:43 PM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by Stroock639 View Post
yes thank you i'm aware, my point is that saying this was quieter is relative just like saying this feels hotter, there are more factors at play than simply the number of decibels or degrees..
Yes it is relative. But 100F is still a 100F, yes humidity or wind chill when it is cold can make it feel different, but it is still 100F

so give me a short explanation where a Navigator ringing in at 65DB does not sound like 65DB, but in relative opinion sounds more like 70DB?
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Old 12-13-18, 10:48 PM
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Originally Posted by LexsCTJill View Post


Yes it is relative. But 100F is still a 100F, yes humidity or wind chill when it is cold can make it feel different, but it is still 100F

so give me a short explanation where a Navigator ringing in at 65DB does not sound like 65DB, but in relative opinion sounds more like 70DB?
steve already explained that
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Old 12-13-18, 10:49 PM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by Stroock639 View Post
steve already explained that
Why donít you summarize it? He mentioned road surfaces might be different, however I read Car and Driver uses the same track. He said you canít engineer our bias, I read Car and Driver just stated measured DB levels at drivers ear level. He mentioned sound pressures, but I donít see any automotive literature backing it up, as all of us on here are not sound engineers it would be nice to see some thing expanding on those claims, and being directly related to interior sound levels.

Like I said, this thread is supposed to be a fun discussion. My guess is the Navigator is one of quietest mainstream vehicles on the road.

Back to the main thread question, this thread is about the quietest brands, for mainstream brands, it looks like Lincoln has the best numbers to back it up. Followed by Buick. I am quite surprised at the higher than expected Lexus numbers as measured by Car and Driver.


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Old 12-14-18, 05:15 AM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by LexsCTJill View Post
Back to the main thread question, this thread is about the quietest brands, for mainstream brands, it looks like Lincoln has the best numbers to back it up. Followed by Buick. I am quite surprised at the higher than expected Lexus numbers as measured by Car and Driver.
Probably gets back to what I've said a number of times before.....the way they are designed and built today. Although the LS460 is still generally a rolling isolation chamber (can't speak for the 500), Lexus products are simply not the same as they were in the 1990s or early 2000s. They are designed with more cost-cutting in mind, use less insulation, and have larger wheels and wider tires (which puts more tire-surface/friction on the road, for tire noise). In addition, the lower sidewalls on the tires tend to transmit more noise because there is less rubber to absorb it. Last, the road surfaces themselves have often changed. The traditional billiard-table-smooth asphalt of yesteryear has often been replaced by grainy, porous asphalt patterns that increase tire-traction and more effectively prevent black-ice from forming, but they also significantly increase tire-noise, even in otherwise-quiet vehicles. That is just one of the prices we pay for better safety on the roads from better traction.

The reason Buicks are so quiet is not that they necessarily make less noise to start with (indeed, their engines are not particularly hush-hush), but the fact that Buick is not stingy with insulation. The much-publicised Buick Quiet Tuning process is not just a bunch of ad-hype. It is real....and it works. Yes, it costs some money and labor at the plant to do it (my Verano, for instance, had FIVE separate layers of insulation simply in the roof alone, in addition to triple-sealed doors and double-paned glass, but it pays off of the road).

I'm less-familiar with how Lincoln does their sound insulation, but I suspect it is probably similar to Buick.

Last edited by mmarshall; 12-14-18 at 05:37 AM.
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Old 12-14-18, 05:42 AM
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Originally Posted by LexsCTJill View Post
Is Lexus resting on their past reputation?

Not totally, but, for the most part, IMO, yes.

The numbers seem to suggest the new LS and ES are not as quiet as their previous models,
Haven't driven the LS500, but the 2019 ES, wth 45-series tires, to my ears, is definitely noisier. However, I sampled an Avalon XLE with the same 17" 55-series tire that comes on the base ES350, and, to my standards, it was fine...so I suspect the 17" ES will also not be bad.


yet Lincoln has made some progress based on previous data.
At Lincoln, they are trying very hard to overcome their past reputation of being just Fords with a little more wood and leather.
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