Declining sales of anything without 'utility' in its description
12-01-18, 07:53 PM
#46
Lexus Test Driver
Originally Posted by mmarshall
No offense, but if I told you what I would do (or have done) you will just find a way to belittle or argue with it. But I will say this: I would have done almost anything else before laying off 15% of the work force and alienating those customers who still want the vehicles produced in those plants, even if they are not SUVs. GMs management not only tossed out the bathwater, but the baby with it.
12-01-18, 08:03 PM
#47
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Layoffs are necessary to keep businesses healthy in the long term. It's simply a business cycle they are experiencing and they are adjusting appropriately. Every industry and company has to do this. 15% isn't even that drastic on a percentage basis. It's just the scale at which GM operates that the number are alarming. Much of my career has been focused on corporate restructuring and in the long run, its to improve the viability of the business long term.
12-01-18, 08:14 PM
#48
Lexus Test Driver
Originally Posted by mmarshall
No offense, but 15% of GM's worker-total isn't drastic? I understand what you are saying in the (percentage) ratio, but in a company the size of GM, that's still a LOT of workers. I wouldn't want to have to try and sleep at night knowing that I laid them off.
12-01-18, 08:47 PM
#49
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Not sure I agree. More likely, before that happened, somebody else would have come in and bought them up......just as Fiat (and some U.S. government money) bought out Chrysler.
12-01-18, 08:50 PM
#50
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
First off, let's keep politics out of this.
second, a 'war' implies intent to achieve a goal. By the definition i can only think gm's goal is to stay in business because they don't make enough money on large non luxury or premium sedans, and need the r&d money to invest in areas they think will remain or become money makers. Stating this as a 'war' (even without starting at Godwin's law
) is hyperbole at the least.
third, large luxury sedans will continue, and be bought by wealthier customers. The non luxury of premium large sedans were bought by less affluent or more frugal buyers like mmarshall, but whereas in times long ago they were bought as the roomy 'family transport' for middle class families, they've all flocked to the infinitely more appropriate and practical cuv/suv/minivans. The remaining non luxury or premium large sedan customer is a tiny market now in north america.
there's no war, they simply don't sell well enough.
and it's not like you've been a long time buyer of this type of vehicle as you've had an is300, a verano, and i think a Subaru in recent years.
so when the aztec went away or the fiero, or now the fusion, etc., was there 'wars' on them?
i know you're upset, but the premise makes no sense.
second, a 'war' implies intent to achieve a goal. By the definition i can only think gm's goal is to stay in business because they don't make enough money on large non luxury or premium sedans, and need the r&d money to invest in areas they think will remain or become money makers. Stating this as a 'war' (even without starting at Godwin's law
) is hyperbole at the least.third, large luxury sedans will continue, and be bought by wealthier customers. The non luxury of premium large sedans were bought by less affluent or more frugal buyers like mmarshall, but whereas in times long ago they were bought as the roomy 'family transport' for middle class families, they've all flocked to the infinitely more appropriate and practical cuv/suv/minivans. The remaining non luxury or premium large sedan customer is a tiny market now in north america.
there's no war, they simply don't sell well enough.
and it's not like you've been a long time buyer of this type of vehicle as you've had an is300, a verano, and i think a Subaru in recent years.
so when the aztec went away or the fiero, or now the fusion, etc., was there 'wars' on them?
i know you're upset, but the premise makes no sense.
12-01-18, 09:05 PM
#51
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
First, just like you, I've had a lot of different vehicles, for a lot of different reasons. But, over the years, I've found big Buicks, to my tastes, clearly the most pleasant to drive. I would have had more of them if the quality hadn't tanked between the late 70s and early 2000s. I have one again now...and, if available, my checkbook is ready for (yes) another one when I get a reasonable amount of use out of this one.....I'm not going to trade it after only 18 months.
there's no war, they simply don't sell well enough.
i know you're upset, but the premise makes no sense.
Last edited by mmarshall; 12-01-18 at 09:11 PM.
12-02-18, 04:20 AM
#52
No offense, but if I told you what I would do (or have done) you will just find a way to belittle or argue with it. But I will say this: I would have done almost anything else before laying off 15% of the work force and alienating those customers who still want the vehicles produced in those plants, even if they are not SUVs. GMs management not only tossed out the bathwater, but the baby with it.
Not only that, but Trump is an experienced businessman.....one of the most experienced on the planet. He knows sound (and unsound) business practices when he sees them. He's not going to tweet nonsense.
Not only that, but Trump is an experienced businessman.....one of the most experienced on the planet. He knows sound (and unsound) business practices when he sees them. He's not going to tweet nonsense.
Oh he will Tweet about it I will bet on that.
First, just like you, I've had a lot of different vehicles, for a lot of different reasons. But, over the years, I've found big Buicks, to my tastes, clearly the most pleasant to drive. I would have had more of them if the quality hadn't tanked between the late 70s and early 2000s. I have one again now...and, if available, my checkbook is ready for (yes) another one when I get a reasonable amount of use out of this one.....I'm not going to trade it after only 18 months.
Yes, there is....but for profitability reason, not sales. What's happening is that Ford and GM's own management seems to waging a war against sedans in the American market because they don't consider them profitable enough. So, not only with naturally lessening customer demand, they figure that, if customers won't voluntarily leave them on their own (which some are doing, but not enough to satisfy the bean-counters), they simply will not build any more new ones and take away the sedan option, period. It gets back to what I said some time ago....you can't sell what you don't (or won't) build. Basically, this looks to me like a well-orchestrated campaign to force more people into SUVs, and get sedans out of the picture for good. I'm usually not a great one to believe in conspiracies, but this has got the handwriting on the wall. IMO it is unscrupulous, unethical, and underhanded. No wonder both Trump and Trudeau are up in arms about it.
My opinion, as one ordinary human being, may not make much difference.....but just wait till Trump and Trudeau get cracking here. Their opinions DO mean something.
So Trump and Trudeau will get cracking to appease to you and others is that correct?
12-02-18, 06:41 AM
#53
Lexus Champion
MM if I understand your timeline you've owned two large Buicks. One in highschool, most likely a used car, and your Lacrosse. That's one new large Buick in 45-50 years? See where I'm headed here? Buick has made very little off of you and it illustrates the issue with their large sedans.
12-02-18, 07:27 AM
#54
Lexus Test Driver
The CEOs of Ford and GM have a very poor record in their short time at the top.
Historically these 2 companies have been mis-managed and in GMs case should have failed.
I have ZERO confidence in their decision making.
The fact that GM cancelled the Volt and Tesla can’t make enough Model3s should be writing on the wall.
By cancelling these sedans they are just taking easy way out and prolonging their eventual faith which is bankruptcy. In next 5years The economy will take a HUGE dip. Small cars will be again popular while Trucks and SUVs will be frowned upon.
EVs will take over and Tesla will be leading the charge.
I’m personally shocked at the amount of Model 3s I see and they really stand out.
Historically these 2 companies have been mis-managed and in GMs case should have failed.
I have ZERO confidence in their decision making.
The fact that GM cancelled the Volt and Tesla can’t make enough Model3s should be writing on the wall.
By cancelling these sedans they are just taking easy way out and prolonging their eventual faith which is bankruptcy. In next 5years The economy will take a HUGE dip. Small cars will be again popular while Trucks and SUVs will be frowned upon.
EVs will take over and Tesla will be leading the charge.
I’m personally shocked at the amount of Model 3s I see and they really stand out.
12-02-18, 07:57 AM
#55
Lexus Test Driver
Originally Posted by RNM GS3
The CEOs of Ford and GM have a very poor record in their short time at the top.
Historically these 2 companies have been mis-managed and in GMs case should have failed.
I have ZERO confidence in their decision making.
The fact that GM cancelled the Volt and Tesla can’t make enough Model3s should be writing on the wall.
By cancelling these sedans they are just taking easy way out and prolonging their eventual faith which is bankruptcy. In next 5years The economy will take a HUGE dip. Small cars will be again popular while Trucks and SUVs will be frowned upon.
EVs will take over and Tesla will be leading the charge.
I’m personally shocked at the amount of Model 3s I see and they really stand out.
Historically these 2 companies have been mis-managed and in GMs case should have failed.
I have ZERO confidence in their decision making.
The fact that GM cancelled the Volt and Tesla can’t make enough Model3s should be writing on the wall.
By cancelling these sedans they are just taking easy way out and prolonging their eventual faith which is bankruptcy. In next 5years The economy will take a HUGE dip. Small cars will be again popular while Trucks and SUVs will be frowned upon.
EVs will take over and Tesla will be leading the charge.
I’m personally shocked at the amount of Model 3s I see and they really stand out.
12-02-18, 08:38 AM
#56
Lexus Test Driver
https://www.torquenews.com/1083/chev...1-q3-heres-why
Chevy Bolt is turning out to be a sales disaster for Chevy and General Motors. Despite being a media favorite and Car of The Year award winner, the Bolt's sales are in freefall over the past three months. In the third quarter sales went off a cliff and are 41.1% lower than the same period last year. The Bolt, which had monthly sales above 3,000 units in 2017, has not had a single sales month above 2,000 units in 2018. As bad as it sounds, the year-end news could be much worse. Q4 was the Bolt's strongest quarter last year. The next set of sales comparisons could be ugly.
If other affordable electrified cars were seeing the same results it would be easy to call the Bolt's sales a market reaction. They are not. The Prius Prime was up 21% with sales over 2,000 in September. The Chevy Volt was up 23% in the past quarter. The Honda Clarityand Nissan Leaf are steadily climbing in sales. Every major player in the affordable EV market is doing well by comparison to last year. Except for the Bolt.
12-02-18, 10:42 AM
#57
Lexus Test Driver
Originally Posted by RNM GS3
You my friend have no idea what your talking about obviously - see below info........
https://www.torquenews.com/1083/chev...1-q3-heres-why
Chevy Bolt is turning out to be a sales disaster for Chevy and General Motors. Despite being a media favorite and Car of The Year award winner, the Bolt's sales are in freefall over the past three months. In the third quarter sales went off a cliff and are 41.1% lower than the same period last year. The Bolt, which had monthly sales above 3,000 units in 2017, has not had a single sales month above 2,000 units in 2018. As bad as it sounds, the year-end news could be much worse. Q4 was the Bolt's strongest quarter last year. The next set of sales comparisons could be ugly.
If other affordable electrified cars were seeing the same results it would be easy to call the Bolt's sales a market reaction. They are not. The Prius Prime was up 21% with sales over 2,000 in September. The Chevy Volt was up 23% in the past quarter. The Honda Clarityand Nissan Leaf are steadily climbing in sales. Every major player in the affordable EV market is doing well by comparison to last year. Except for the Bolt.
https://www.torquenews.com/1083/chev...1-q3-heres-why
Chevy Bolt is turning out to be a sales disaster for Chevy and General Motors. Despite being a media favorite and Car of The Year award winner, the Bolt's sales are in freefall over the past three months. In the third quarter sales went off a cliff and are 41.1% lower than the same period last year. The Bolt, which had monthly sales above 3,000 units in 2017, has not had a single sales month above 2,000 units in 2018. As bad as it sounds, the year-end news could be much worse. Q4 was the Bolt's strongest quarter last year. The next set of sales comparisons could be ugly.
If other affordable electrified cars were seeing the same results it would be easy to call the Bolt's sales a market reaction. They are not. The Prius Prime was up 21% with sales over 2,000 in September. The Chevy Volt was up 23% in the past quarter. The Honda Clarityand Nissan Leaf are steadily climbing in sales. Every major player in the affordable EV market is doing well by comparison to last year. Except for the Bolt.
12-02-18, 12:32 PM
#58
Lexus Champion
Bolt is one of the worst looking cars ever put into production what did GM think was going to happen?
Last edited by LeX2K; 12-02-18 at 01:15 PM.
12-02-18, 01:56 PM
#59
The great war against mm. So childish, like his ball was taken away and now he can only whine and cry. Why wasn't this a big deal when Ford announced they were stopping production of sedans? Nobody wants a big sedan anymore, times have changed and sales show it. Time to move on mm, all your whining will not change corporate decisions since you represent a small minority of buyers.
12-02-18, 01:58 PM
#60
The great war against mm. So childish, like his ball was taken away and now he can only whine and cry. Why wasn't this a big deal when Ford announced they were stopping production of sedans? Nobody wants a big sedan anymore, times have changed and sales show it. Time to move on mm, all your whining will not change corporate decisions since you represent a small minority of buyers.
