GM closing Ontario, Detroit, and Ohio factories
11-26-18, 07:36 PM
#31
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Wow. These cuts are really deep. Baltimore Maryland is getting affected as well. https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.balt...story,amp.html
11-26-18, 07:40 PM
#32
Lexus Fanatic
The Continental, G80/90, and KIA K900 are much nicer sedans then the Lacrosse so it may work out for you. I saw a black Continental recently parked next to me and it is a nice looking car.
11-26-18, 07:43 PM
#33
Lexus Champion
What happened to the rule of thumb that you do not announce worker dismissals prior to a weekend or holiday? Weekends and holidays (especially the Christmas-New Year holiday period in North America) are supposed to be happy, family times, but being dismissed from work (actually dismissed or having notice of a impending dismissal) just prior to the holidays ruins all of that happiness and goodwill.
The wages of non-unionized automakers (including Honda and Toyota) are similar to wages in unionized plants; if not, the non-unionized automakers would not be able to attract workers.
In the non-union plants you might be talking about, there is no shortage of workers willing to work in a non-union plant due to local economic conditions where wages and lack of work drive what an employer pays. And when things change suddenly, those people can be let go or laid off without high costs, unlike UAW/Unifor workers.
11-26-18, 07:59 PM
#34
Lexus Fanatic
I've driven all of them. None of them, IMO, ride as soft as an 18" wheel, 50-series tire Lacrosse, The Continental's interior, I agree, will knock your socks off.....but it is saddled with that silly electronic inside door-release, and the manual back-up switch is difficult to find. One problem with American-market Kias is that, while they are very well-built IMO, Kia of America tunes the suspensions a little stiffer than they do on Korean home-market versions. Hyundai does the same thing. That's because the South Koreans and Chinese generally like Cush-Tush riding vehicles that ride, well.....like a Lacrosse, but the company managers think that we Americans want something firmer, when many of us don't.
Like it or not, in the future, I just might (?) be forced into the used-car market. The new-car manufacturers are, gradually, more and more each year, simply forgetting about people like me. I know people like that right now.....none of the new cars, for a reasonable price, are comfortable enough for them, so they stick with the old Cadillac DTS and Lincoln Town Cars.
Last edited by mmarshall; 11-26-18 at 08:05 PM.
11-26-18, 09:11 PM
#35
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
I've driven all of them. None of them, IMO, ride as soft as an 18" wheel, 50-series tire Lacrosse, The Continental's interior, I agree, will knock your socks off.....but it is saddled with that silly electronic inside door-release, and the manual back-up switch is difficult to find. One problem with American-market Kias is that, while they are very well-built IMO, Kia of America tunes the suspensions a little stiffer than they do on Korean home-market versions. Hyundai does the same thing. That's because the South Koreans and Chinese generally like Cush-Tush riding vehicles that ride, well.....like a Lacrosse, but the company managers think that we Americans want something firmer, when many of us don't.
Like it or not, in the future, I just might (?) be forced into the used-car market. The new-car manufacturers are, gradually, more and more each year, simply forgetting about people like me. I know people like that right now.....none of the new cars, for a reasonable price, are comfortable enough for them, so they stick with the old Cadillac DTS and Lincoln Town Cars.
Like it or not, in the future, I just might (?) be forced into the used-car market. The new-car manufacturers are, gradually, more and more each year, simply forgetting about people like me. I know people like that right now.....none of the new cars, for a reasonable price, are comfortable enough for them, so they stick with the old Cadillac DTS and Lincoln Town Cars.
11-27-18, 12:42 AM
#36
Lexus Fanatic
Good thing I'm retired and don't have to get up at 4 or 5 AM any more for a daily commute. It's past 3 AM here in D.C., and I'm having trouble sleeping tonight because of the stress and anguish GM's announcement brought me....and I'm just a customer; not even one of the poor souls that are actually risk of being laid off and losing their jobs at the plant(s). They, of course, have even more to be concerned about. This is also the second time I've had to go through this nonsense.....just a couple of years ago, they decided to ax the American-market Verano, so I couldn't replace my old one either. I like the Lincoln MKZ (not quite as nice as the Lacrosse, but definitely a nice car)....if Ford doesn't can IT, too.
Yes, I know Lacrosses are produced in China.....they absolutely love them in that country. Buick sold 800,000 vehicles of all types there last year, as opposed to barely one fourth of that here. And, yes, if they can send the Envision over here from Chinese plants, they can do the same for Lacrosses (assuming they are built to American standards), but the demand obviously has to be there. If the demand is not there, so be it....and much of the demand in the U.S. does seem to be shifting to SUVs, and the die-hards like me are just getting fewer and fewer in number.
Here's a list of planned shutdowns in detail:
https://jalopnik.com/dead-the-cadillac-ct6-and-a-ton-of-other-gm-cars-1830656192
https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/w8drgjhn433s7ztjlk3k.png
With that, I think I'm out of this thread, at least for now. I've posted a lot of negative things here, really don't have much more to contribute to the thread that many of you would find positive, and I'm sure that most of you don't want to listen to me constantly b**ch about what is going to happen, or for me to feel sorry for myself like a spoiled kid. You probably put up with enough of that from your own kids LOL. I'll just find a way to take it in stride....in fact, as soon as I get some sleep (whenever that is) I'll start looking at the latest 2019 version of competitors as (possible) future replacements, though I plan to keep this car some time yet.
Last edited by mmarshall; 11-27-18 at 01:34 AM.
11-27-18, 04:35 AM
#37
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Thanks for the uplifting comment....I know you are just trying to help.
Good thing I'm retired and don't have to get up at 4 or 5 AM any more for a daily commute. It's past 3 AM here in D.C., and I'm having trouble sleeping tonight because of the stress and anguish GM's announcement brought me....and I'm just a customer; not even one of the poor souls that are actually risk of being laid off and losing their jobs at the plant(s). They, of course, have even more to be concerned about. This is also the second time I've had to go through this nonsense.....just a couple of years ago, they decided to ax the American-market Verano, so I couldn't replace my old one either. I like the Lincoln MKZ (not quite as nice as the Lacrosse, but definitely a nice car)....if Ford doesn't can IT, too.
Yes, I know Lacrosses are produced in China.....they absolutely love them in that country. Buick sold 800,000 vehicles of all types there last year, as opposed to barely one fourth of that here. And, yes, if they can send the Envision over here from Chinese plants, they can do the same for Lacrosses (assuming they are built to American standards), but the demand obviously has to be there. If the demand is not there, so be it....and much of the demand in the U.S. does seem to be shifting to SUVs, and the die-hards like me are just getting fewer and fewer in number.
Here's a list of planned shutdowns in detail:
https://jalopnik.com/dead-the-cadillac-ct6-and-a-ton-of-other-gm-cars-1830656192
https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/w8drgjhn433s7ztjlk3k.png
With that, I think I'm out of this thread, at least for now. I've posted a lot of negative things here, really don't have much more to contribute to the thread that many of you would find positive, and I'm sure that most of you don't want to listen to me constantly b**ch about what is going to happen, or for me to feel sorry for myself like a spoiled kid. You probably put up with enough of that from your own kids LOL. I'll just find a way to take it in stride....in fact, as soon as I get some sleep (whenever that is) I'll start looking at the latest 2019 version of competitors as (possible) future replacements, though I plan to keep this car some time yet.
Good thing I'm retired and don't have to get up at 4 or 5 AM any more for a daily commute. It's past 3 AM here in D.C., and I'm having trouble sleeping tonight because of the stress and anguish GM's announcement brought me....and I'm just a customer; not even one of the poor souls that are actually risk of being laid off and losing their jobs at the plant(s). They, of course, have even more to be concerned about. This is also the second time I've had to go through this nonsense.....just a couple of years ago, they decided to ax the American-market Verano, so I couldn't replace my old one either. I like the Lincoln MKZ (not quite as nice as the Lacrosse, but definitely a nice car)....if Ford doesn't can IT, too.
Yes, I know Lacrosses are produced in China.....they absolutely love them in that country. Buick sold 800,000 vehicles of all types there last year, as opposed to barely one fourth of that here. And, yes, if they can send the Envision over here from Chinese plants, they can do the same for Lacrosses (assuming they are built to American standards), but the demand obviously has to be there. If the demand is not there, so be it....and much of the demand in the U.S. does seem to be shifting to SUVs, and the die-hards like me are just getting fewer and fewer in number.
Here's a list of planned shutdowns in detail:
https://jalopnik.com/dead-the-cadillac-ct6-and-a-ton-of-other-gm-cars-1830656192
https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/w8drgjhn433s7ztjlk3k.png
With that, I think I'm out of this thread, at least for now. I've posted a lot of negative things here, really don't have much more to contribute to the thread that many of you would find positive, and I'm sure that most of you don't want to listen to me constantly b**ch about what is going to happen, or for me to feel sorry for myself like a spoiled kid. You probably put up with enough of that from your own kids LOL. I'll just find a way to take it in stride....in fact, as soon as I get some sleep (whenever that is) I'll start looking at the latest 2019 version of competitors as (possible) future replacements, though I plan to keep this car some time yet.
11-27-18, 05:03 AM
#38
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
Like it or not, in the future, I just might (?) be forced into the used-car market. The new-car manufacturers are, gradually, more and more each year, simply forgetting about people like me. I know people like that right now.....none of the new cars, for a reasonable price, are comfortable enough for them, so they stick with the old Cadillac DTS and Lincoln Town Cars.
i have no doubt the ride comfort in the new gle suv with adaptive suspension will be better than your lacrosse. it's way more sophisticated to make cornering flat, 'see' bumps before you get to them and adjust accordingly. It's all precisely to make a supremely comfortable and quiet ride.
yes it isn't a sedan. It won't be a 'reasonable' price to you. But it is better in every way. Times change. Your tastes, wants and purchases have changed too. But if you want to drive some relic dts (which isn't that special a ride), that's your choice too.
11-27-18, 06:26 AM
#39
Lexus Fanatic
the fallacy of concern over models being eliminated is vehicles and consumer tastes change all the time, no matter what they're called. You once owned, drove, and enjoyed the original lexus is300, a pretty stiff, not very lexus-like sporty compact 4 door, the is model evolved but did you stick with it? no, as is your right of course.
I was going to leave the thread, but I'll answer this one.
The 2001 IS300 I owned had relatively easy-riding 16" wheels and 55-series all-season tires from the factory. They were a no-cost option over the standard 17" 45's high-performance tires....and noticeably more comfortable. Lexus eliminated that option on the 2Gen version....one reason why I did not replace it with another IS.
i have no doubt the ride comfort in the new gle suv with adaptive suspension will be better than your lacrosse. it's way more sophisticated to make cornering flat, 'see' bumps before you get to them and adjust accordingly. It's all precisely to make a supremely comfortable and quiet ride.
11-27-18, 06:30 AM
#41
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
You don't have to leave the thread. Your comments were interesting. Although you seem to take this personally, it is not the end of the world. Like I said, GM might just import from China.
Good. Enjoy your day 
11-27-18, 06:39 AM
#42
Pole Position
Unfortunately, your bank account is just one customer's dollars. There obviously isn't as much demand for a cushomatic soft rider as there used to be - not in sedan form. Most of those buyers have migrated to big crossovers.
Look at the Lacrosse numbers and you can see the dramatic decline in buyers. It is just not feasible to build the Lacrosse without using it as a world platform.
http://gmauthority.com/blog/gm/buick...sales-numbers/
The Oshawa plant closing is being hyper-reported by the main media sources with an implied, "it's closing right away with Christmas right around the corner". These workers have a year to adapt and get ready for it. Just a few years ago these semi-skilled assemblers started at $24/hr CAD and ramped up to full pay in just six years - $34/hr CAD. Under the concessions made by the union in bargaining a two tier scale was created.
Under the amended deal, they started at $20/hr CAD and can reach the full $34/hr in 10 years. I can't imagine in what universe a relatively unskilled high school grad with minimal experience/training gets to make $34/hr plus benefits.
The vast majority of them are at full seniority, a very pricey thing for GM given the product they make has to be exported to the US and quite a few of these units don't sell well. These vehicles can be assembled by anybody in Mexico or China. And of course, do we see any Japanese cars (which sell very well) in US/Canada made by the UAW/Unifor?
Unions in this day and age are very important aspect and much needed in the labor market but some of them are anachronistic relics which tend to look at the new economy with the lens of the past: you work at the same place for 30 years and make a lot of money and retire with a fat pension. Not happening anymore.
Look at the Lacrosse numbers and you can see the dramatic decline in buyers. It is just not feasible to build the Lacrosse without using it as a world platform.
http://gmauthority.com/blog/gm/buick...sales-numbers/
The Oshawa plant closing is being hyper-reported by the main media sources with an implied, "it's closing right away with Christmas right around the corner". These workers have a year to adapt and get ready for it. Just a few years ago these semi-skilled assemblers started at $24/hr CAD and ramped up to full pay in just six years - $34/hr CAD. Under the concessions made by the union in bargaining a two tier scale was created.
Under the amended deal, they started at $20/hr CAD and can reach the full $34/hr in 10 years. I can't imagine in what universe a relatively unskilled high school grad with minimal experience/training gets to make $34/hr plus benefits.
The vast majority of them are at full seniority, a very pricey thing for GM given the product they make has to be exported to the US and quite a few of these units don't sell well. These vehicles can be assembled by anybody in Mexico or China. And of course, do we see any Japanese cars (which sell very well) in US/Canada made by the UAW/Unifor?
Unions in this day and age are very important aspect and much needed in the labor market but some of them are anachronistic relics which tend to look at the new economy with the lens of the past: you work at the same place for 30 years and make a lot of money and retire with a fat pension. Not happening anymore.
You are losing the forest thru the trees here. You may think this is "dumb", but GM isn't flipping a coin here. They have done the research, and GM is willing to dump many sedan-only customers, in order to shed costs to put back into more development in SUVs. Clearly they think that there is more growth there to offset those customers that will only consider large sedans. The Lacrosse, Impala and CT6 are all getting the ax. That's a pretty astonishing admission for Caddy that they are dumping their well-acclaimed flagship sedan before the full life-cycle of the first generation is complete.
Think about it like people being upset if Motorola stopped producing pagers to focus on cell phones. It's all about where the growth is--and between Ford and GM, clearly these companies don't see growth potential in sedans.
Think about it like people being upset if Motorola stopped producing pagers to focus on cell phones. It's all about where the growth is--and between Ford and GM, clearly these companies don't see growth potential in sedans.
11-27-18, 06:40 AM
#43
Lexus Fanatic
I know it doesn't mean much to many, but to me, I always hated seeing a brand new car, with the dealer name on an applied decal, and said decal is crooked. It just to me showed a lack of thought by whomever applied the decal. The local Honda dealership is like that. I never seem to see Lexus, MB, BMW (I can envision some dealers that apply decals) put them on crooked.
My wife's GM was made in Michigan. It has a UAW pride sticker on the driver door. And wouldn't you know, it's crooked, tilted. When I saw that in 2011, I just felt disappointed. Another thing I noticed on hers? You cannot see the month and year of mfg. on the decal, because it was applied such that the rubber stripping runs over it. Poor. Some say made in USA, doesn't matter. I say it does, this means it's not consistent. No way that every GM car has the mo/yr covered by stripping, no way.
I remember this maintenance guy at my first job. When he hung pictures for the execs, he used a level. It would seem that he, took pride in his job, despite getting paid likely $10/hour.
My wife's GM was made in Michigan. It has a UAW pride sticker on the driver door. And wouldn't you know, it's crooked, tilted. When I saw that in 2011, I just felt disappointed. Another thing I noticed on hers? You cannot see the month and year of mfg. on the decal, because it was applied such that the rubber stripping runs over it. Poor. Some say made in USA, doesn't matter. I say it does, this means it's not consistent. No way that every GM car has the mo/yr covered by stripping, no way.
I remember this maintenance guy at my first job. When he hung pictures for the execs, he used a level. It would seem that he, took pride in his job, despite getting paid likely $10/hour.
11-27-18, 06:47 AM
#44
Pole Position
With GM following Ford's lead, one has to wonder how flexible are their production lines? What are they going to do once consumer tastes shifts back to sedans once these days of excess are over and we hit a recession? How many people can still afford to fuel up a big hulking suv that gets a combined 20mpg when a sedan can get you 30+ combined? How many people are willing to shell out the kind of money that pickup trucks and suvs, big and small are asking for?
11-27-18, 06:50 AM
#45
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
With GM following Ford's lead, one has to wonder how flexible are their production lines? What are they going to do once consumer tastes shifts back to sedans once these days of excess are over and we hit a recession? How many people can still afford to fuel up a big hulking suv that gets a combined 20mpg when a sedan can get you 30+ combined? How many people are willing to shell out the kind of money that pickup trucks and suvs, big and small are asking for?