GM closing Ontario, Detroit, and Ohio factories - Page 4 - ClubLexus - Lexus Forum Discussion

Go Back  ClubLexus - Lexus Forum Discussion > General Forums > Car Chat
GM closing Ontario, Detroit, and Ohio factories >

GM closing Ontario, Detroit, and Ohio factories

Notices
Car Chat General discussion about Lexus, other auto manufacturers and automotive news.

GM closing Ontario, Detroit, and Ohio factories

Old 11-27-18, 09:03 AM
  #46  
JDR76
Lexus Fanatic
 
JDR76's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: WA
Posts: 6,319
Thanked 266 Times in 214 Posts
Default

Always sad to hear of jobs being eliminated, but that's part of life and industry, unfortunately.

My employer recently went through this, though with far less press. They cut around 8,000 jobs in Washington state alone last year, and about 22,000 in the state over the past couple of years, so I am sympathetic. It's a rough thing to go through.

I'm excited to see where GM goes. Sounds like their heading into a big transition. Transitions are super tough to go through, but when done right, will place the company in a better place for the future. Time will tell if they're getting it right.
JDR76 is offline  
Old 11-27-18, 09:46 AM
  #47  
Johnhav430
Lexus Fanatic
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: PA
Posts: 5,755
Thanked 189 Times in 177 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by JDR76 View Post
Always sad to hear of jobs being eliminated, but that's part of life and industry, unfortunately.

My employer recently went through this, though with far less press. They cut around 8,000 jobs in Washington state alone last year, and about 22,000 in the state over the past couple of years, so I am sympathetic. It's a rough thing to go through.

I'm excited to see where GM goes. Sounds like their heading into a big transition. Transitions are super tough to go through, but when done right, will place the company in a better place for the future. Time will tell if they're getting it right.
so far I've been able to bite my tongue. One of my brothers' friends gets $8,900/mo. through his pension, and he is like 51 y.o. He boasts when he mentions that number. Why I say bite my tongue, he is a bitter person with nothing but complaining, all the time. In the event those are the folks let go, well, I think it's a win-win, for them, and for the employer. If good people are let go, then that's too bad but as you say, part of life.
Johnhav430 is offline  
Old 11-27-18, 09:57 AM
  #48  
situman
Lexus Test Driver
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: NY
Posts: 1,454
Thanked 16 Times in 11 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by LexsCTJill View Post
They will just import them for the short term. Look who is producing in Mexico, most small cars are down south US or in Mexico.
And those international models will meet US regulations and the factories supply enough to supply both the US and wherever they are producing? Look how long it took the Ranger to come back to the states and all they had to do was import them.
situman is offline  
Old 11-27-18, 10:10 AM
  #49  
LexsCTJill
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: ON
Posts: 10,103
Thanked 32 Times in 25 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by situman View Post
And those international models will meet US regulations and the factories supply enough to supply both the US and wherever they are producing? Look how long it took the Ranger to come back to the states and all they had to do was import them.
Roght now. Most of the GM products are international models. Lacrosse, CT6, Cruze, Envisoon, Canyon, etc. You would make it built in like they do now. All of the core Toyota products are international models, Corolla hatch is imported from Japan, HCR from France, Tacoma access cab is from Mexico.

Last edited by LexsCTJill; 11-27-18 at 10:23 AM.
LexsCTJill is offline  
Old 11-27-18, 10:46 AM
  #50  
UDel
Lexus Fanatic
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: ------
Posts: 9,354
Thanked 89 Times in 81 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Johnhav430 View Post
so far I've been able to bite my tongue. One of my brothers' friends gets $8,900/mo. through his pension, and he is like 51 y.o. He boasts when he mentions that number. Why I say bite my tongue, he is a bitter person with nothing but complaining, all the time. In the event those are the folks let go, well, I think it's a win-win, for them, and for the employer. If good people are let go, then that's too bad but as you say, part of life.
The pensions are ridiculous for GM though I never heard of $8900 a month(are you sure that is right, factory workers don't make anywhere near that while working full time), that is what is draining so much money from GM and giving them so much financial trouble, it is not the hourly wage which is not out of line with a avg middle class wage.
UDel is offline  
Old 11-27-18, 10:51 AM
  #51  
UDel
Lexus Fanatic
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: ------
Posts: 9,354
Thanked 89 Times in 81 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by mmarshall View Post
I've driven all of them. None of them, IMO, ride as soft as an 18" wheel, 50-series tire Lacrosse, The Continental's interior, I agree, will knock your socks off.....but it is saddled with that silly electronic inside door-release, and the manual back-up switch is difficult to find. One problem with American-market Kias is that, while they are very well-built IMO, Kia of America tunes the suspensions a little stiffer than they do on Korean home-market versions. Hyundai does the same thing. That's because the South Koreans and Chinese generally like Cush-Tush riding vehicles that ride, well.....like a Lacrosse, but the company managers think that we Americans want something firmer, when many of us don't.

Like it or not, in the future, I just might (?) be forced into the used-car market. The new-car manufacturers are, gradually, more and more each year, simply forgetting about people like me. I know people like that right now.....none of the new cars, for a reasonable price, are comfortable enough for them, so they stick with the old Cadillac DTS and Lincoln Town Cars.
If going used you would probably love a LS460 or G90, those are probably the top 2 of what I am looking to go next , last of the NA 8 cylinders that still have physical buttons for most functions.
UDel is offline  
Old 11-27-18, 10:58 AM
  #52  
jrmckinley
Lexus Test Driver
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: fl
Posts: 1,179
Thanked 50 Times in 50 Posts
Default

Sorry GM and Ford, you can put lipstick on a pig.. but it's still a pig.

In a nutshell - people are still buying cars (albeit at a slower pace)... They just aren't buying Ford or GM cars. GM and Ford will move to "optimize their portfolio" by focusing on electric vehicles - but I don't think people will buy those either. They don't want American cars because they're largely boring, poorly designed, and sold in large part to rental car companies and corporations giving out company cars. I don't want to own a vehicle I can rent at Hertz, Enterprise, etc.

GM and Ford have a massive problem on their hands - they have no track record of building anything of interest in the EV space in the last few years, they're effectively "last market movers" trying to catch up to Tesla, and are too late and ill-equipped to attempt a brand makeover to several younger generations interested in brands that evoke emotion, loyalty, and doing things for cause. On top of that, they're putting virtually all of their eggs in an SUV and cross-over basket for now.

If fully-autonomous cars that no one individual owns are on the horizon, that may be where GM focuses. I see a day where tons of consumers don't want to own a car and the cars driving them around look like bare bones, unattractive Zip Cars or Smart Cars. Maybe that's GM and Ford's sweet spot.
jrmckinley is offline  
Old 11-27-18, 11:25 AM
  #53  
Johnhav430
Lexus Fanatic
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: PA
Posts: 5,755
Thanked 189 Times in 177 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by UDel View Post
The pensions are ridiculous for GM though I never heard of $8900 a month(are you sure that is right, factory workers don't make anywhere near that while working full time), that is what is draining so much money from GM and giving them so much financial trouble, it is not the hourly wage which is not out of line with a avg middle class wage.
Oh no not a factory worker, not GM. Just the attitude of entitlement that my brother's friend has--and 51 y.o. get a job, you still can work instead of complaining. I understand that maybe it's not enough to "maintain" a certain lifestyle, but it's very safe to say that is way more than most people have today, especially through 401k plans. My neighbor is in his 70's, worked for the power company, and he told me his pension is in the mid 5k range, nowhere near 8+. He doesn't complain, nor does he spend a lot. His attitude I like. He even told me how much he inherited, yet nothing changed, lives modestly. This is the mindset I think whereby parents intend on passing something on to heirs. I think most parents today intend on spending it "all."
Johnhav430 is offline  
Old 11-27-18, 11:29 AM
  #54  
JDR76
Lexus Fanatic
 
JDR76's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: WA
Posts: 6,319
Thanked 266 Times in 214 Posts
Default

I have a solid pension plan at my workplace, but I doubt I could ever get it up to anything near $8900 a month, especially if I retired early.
JDR76 is offline  
Old 11-27-18, 12:02 PM
  #55  
situman
Lexus Test Driver
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: NY
Posts: 1,454
Thanked 16 Times in 11 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by LexsCTJill View Post


Roght now. Most of the GM products are international models. Lacrosse, CT6, Cruze, Envisoon, Canyon, etc. You would make it built in like they do now. All of the core Toyota products are international models, Corolla hatch is imported from Japan, HCR from France, Tacoma access cab is from Mexico.
Produced is one thing. Designed and meet north american regulations is another.
situman is offline  
Old 11-27-18, 12:05 PM
  #56  
jrmckinley
Lexus Test Driver
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: fl
Posts: 1,179
Thanked 50 Times in 50 Posts
Default

Some more details I found in a link on GM's Twitter page. Their goals are "Zero Crashes, Zero Emissions, Zero Congestion." Wonder what the zero congestion is about..? There are some really interesting tidbits of info in this link. https://media.gm.com/media/us/en/gm/...v/1126-gm.html
jrmckinley is offline  
Old 11-27-18, 12:05 PM
  #57  
LexsCTJill
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: ON
Posts: 10,103
Thanked 32 Times in 25 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by situman View Post
Produced is one thing. Designed and meet north american regulations is another.
The current Lacrosse, Regal, Cruze, Canyon are already international designs. GM is already doing what you are saying they will have trouble with. These closures were about getting smaller and getting out of the hassle of having a UAW workers and legacy plants. It makes no sense to upgrade these plants for cars. Do you not see that?
LexsCTJill is offline  
Old 11-27-18, 12:39 PM
  #58  
RNM GS3
Lexus Champion
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: New York
Posts: 3,273
Thanked 8 Times in 7 Posts
Default

I think BMW and MB will be the last to sell cars lol at this rate.

How do you just end production in models that you spent BILLIONS of dollars developing and marketing like the Volt, Cruze and CT6. Easiest thing is always to give up. What makes them think that ppl will buy their new EVs over a Tesla?

This is just short sighted planning to appease the bottom line and copy what Ford is doing.
RNM GS3 is offline  
Old 11-27-18, 01:38 PM
  #59  
Sulu
Lexus Champion
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Canada
Posts: 3,042
Thanks: 0
Thanked 27 Times in 20 Posts
Default Which GM Sedans Are on the Chopping Block After Plant Closures?

Here is a good summary.

GM has revealed exactly when the cars produced at the three factories that will become unallocated in 2019 will stop being produced. While the fates of the plants are clear, the fate of the vehicles is a little less so.

The Chevrolet Volt, Chevrolet Cruze, and the Buick LaCrosse will stop being produced in March 2019, CT6 production will stop in June, and the Impala and the XTS will stop production in the fourth quarter of 2019, according to a document first shared by Jalopnik.




Although the timeline indicates that the CT6’s Hamtramck production will end on June 1, 2019. Whether or not you’ll be able to buy a CT6 in 2020 (and beyond) is still something of a mystery. Although GM previously went through the trouble of announcing that the CT6 Hybrid was being discontinued, it made no mention of the regular CT6.

The CT6 is also produced in Jinquiao, China, and the LaCrosse is also produced in Korea. GM has kept mum about international production. While GM could discontinue both models, their youth (the Cadillac started production in 2016 and the LaCrosse’s started in 2017) would make killing them completely feel wasteful.

GM could also simply decide to stop selling them in the US and sell them only abroad. China’s appetite for sedans hasn’t abated quite as much as America’s, after all.

The Cruze, too, is assembled in many international plants, so its American production may be the only one ending.

The Impala, meanwhile, is only built in Michigan and Ontario, so there’s little doubt that this is the Impala’s death knell. The XTS, it seems likely, will suffer the same fate.

And while the fate of several of the vehicles remains a little mysterious, like the Volt, it is noteworthy that all of the vehicles announced for discontinuation are sedans. The market for capital C cars has been shrinking quickly lately and many of GM’s competitors have all but given up on them. Chrysler has stopped producing small sedans, while Ford stopped producing sedans altogether.

It remains a shock to see these vehicles leave so soon, though, as they weren’t particularly old and GM had indicated in the past that it wanted to pick up the sedan sales its competitors were abandoning. A drive away from volume toward profit, though, appears to have tipped the scales against the sedan (in North America, at least).

Intriguingly, GM’s Fairfax Assembly plant in Kansas has been spared, despite only producing the Malibu. That car is also produced in Shanghai, South Korea, and Uzbekistan.

GM hasn’t quite revealed what its product plans are following these announcements. And while the news doesn’t appear to be good for any of them, whether this means more imports, a smaller product portfolio in North America, or just fewer GM cars, in general, remains unclear. We’ll keep following this story as it unfolds.
Source
Sulu is offline  
Old 11-27-18, 03:05 PM
  #60  
bitkahuna
resisting entropy
iTrader: (20)
 
bitkahuna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Present
Posts: 54,596
Thanked 58 Times in 50 Posts
Default

Gm's pension obligation is still a huge problem. A previous ceo said his job was to keep the co. going until enough pensioners die.

from seeking alpha...

SummaryThe company is doing fine on the surface, but there is a growing headache.

The company recently issued debt just to fund the pension plan.

Cash flow is being sucked away.

Despite significant contributions, the plan remains underfunded.

Contributions will likely continue in the future due to the persistent underfunding.

This idea was discussed in more depth with members of my private investing community,Core Value Portfolio.

Many investors are wondering why General Motors' stock (NYSE: GM) has stagnated despite improving financials. By all traditional measures, the company is growing and producing profits. In Q1, EPS more than doubled from $0.58 to $1.26 and sales rose 4% quarter on quarter from $35.7 billion to $37.3 billion. This was achieved despite the ongoing effort to trim sales to fleet customers.

It's difficult to pinpoint a single factor that is negatively affecting the market's sentiment towards the stock, but there are many. For example, I believe that GM's investment in Lyft was a strategic failure ( GM Loses $500 Million). Today I'll talk about a less known problem: the pension plan.

Underfunded, Poorly Managed



GM's Pension

Let's first talk about why you should care about the pension plan. Because the pension takes the form of a defined benefit plan, the company has fixed liabilities in the future. To ensure that the company has enough money to pay the eventual retirees, the company sets aside some assets for the sole purpose of generating a return that will be high enough to cover the liabilities. But when liabilities grow faster than the assets, the plan becomes underfunded, and the company will eventually have to fork over more cash to offset the difference. That cash comes straight from shareholder's pockets.

Using Q1 as an example, the management decided to issue $2 billion worth of senior notes to contribute to its pension plan. The contribution took a huge bite out of the cash flow. Had there been no contribution, Q1's operating cash flow would have been $1.76 billion instead of an outflow of $164 million.

As of FYE 2015, the pension plan is underfunded by a whopping $21 billion. That's a $21 billion hole that the company would eventually have to fill. This can be done in two ways: direct contribution (see Q1) or excess returns from assets. While retirees can rely on contributions to fill the void, contributions are exactly the opposite of what shareholders would want since they directly reduce cash flow. Ideally, the underfunded status should be reduced, or at least maintained, through excess returns. Unfortunately, the fund's overall performance has not been up to par.



Source: data from 10-Ks

The table above shows that despite having contributed $9.2 billion over the past five years (excluding Q1 2016), the underfunded status only improved by a measly $4.3 billion. Or in other words, had the company not contributed any cash out of pocket, the funding gap would have widened to $30 billion. As you can see, each year the pension fund sucks billions of dollars from shareholders, making a huge impact on cash flow. Furthermore, based on past performance, the funding gap will continue to widen, meaning that future contributions will become a necessity.

Takeaway

General Motors' pension plan will continue to be a headache for the company. There is the chance that the pension plan will suddenly perform better, but based on past experience, shareholders shouldn't have too much hope. Is there an easy way to remedy this problem? Unfortunately not. However, General Motors did freeze the defined benefit plan several years ago in the U.S. This means that once the funding gap is plugged (somehow), there will be far fewer problems since U.S. pension obligations account for 73% of total pension obligation. But as it stands, shareholders will have to deal with this headache for quite some time.


bitkahuna is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

© 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from community experts
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: