SW17LS

Here's the report from Bob Lutz:

http://gmauthority.com/blog/2018/11/...ffs-not-silly/

So, Mike what do you have to say about Bob Lutz now? He still good or does this make him an idiot too?

EDIT: JDR beat me to it!

LeX2K

I tend to take what Bob "Tesla is headed for the graveyard" Lutz says and believe the opposite. He also said Tesla would never make it to 2019. Hmmmm.

mmarshall

He's correct about sedans waning in demand. But that doesn't mean that they all have to be axed....nor did he say that he personally supported such a move. He likes big sedans himself.

Also interesting that most other companies outside of Ford and GM show no sign of dumping their sedans. Dodge and Chrysler, of course, dumped their smaller ones, but are apparently keeping the Charger and 300.

And I checked out the new Avalon today. I'll talk about that in another thread, as Dave wants us to keep other test-drives out of this one.

Toys4RJill

COOLIS

The unions hold just as much responsibility for this as the dying sedan market does. If GM wants to lower costs, their only way to do this seems to be to close plants, layoff workers, etc. The unions WILL NOT work with GM to negotiate lower wages, benefits, etc. even if this means keeping more jobs. All this being said, I'm not sure if GM even considered renegotiating contracts before coming to the decision were at now. Unless, they start off with the most drastic scenario and negotiate with the unions from here. I'm curious to see how this all plays out, both for GM and politically.

mmarshall

If that's the case, then why are even UAW jobs in the auto plants paying, on average, about half of what they were in the 1970s...especially for base, starting-level jobs? The UAW has accepted huge cutbacks over the years...and the UAW itself even put up some of the money (besides Fiat and the U.S. Government) that was included in the GM and Chrysler buyouts, to help save the two corporations.

Toys4RJill

SW17LS

No, thats exactly what he said. He said he agreed with the move and that it was the way the industry was going, and that it would eventually impact everybody. What he prefers himself is meaningless because he understands the business. Its not the "build what Bob Lutz likes" company.

Why do you think Chrysler has two models, and there's no slated replacement for the 300? Why does FCA's 5 year plan not discuss sedans at all?

You're not looking at this objectively at all.

And like Jill said, GM isn't dumping all their sedans for now, just they aren't planning on making the models built at this plant when they idle the plant. Do I think they will cancel more sedans? Yes.

mmarshall

Don't remember seeing all of it, but I might have seen parts of it. How old is it?

Roger Smith never impressed me. He represented the worst of GM, during a time when, IMO, some of its worst vehicles were produced.

Toys4RJill

SW17LS

Really tough...sucks all the way around.

mmarshall

Thanks. I noticed one of them wrote to Premier Doug Ford. Is he any relation to Toronto's Ex-Mayor Rob Ford, or don't you know? I'm sorry for Rob that his life was cut short by (apparent) cancer, but I cannot say I was impressed wth him. He ran around constantly acting like he was either drunk or high on something, and there were some reports that he was smoking crack.

Toys4RJill

Sulu

Premier Doug Ford is the late Rob Ford's older brother. They were joined at the hip when Rob Ford was mayor and Doug Ford was a city councillor. They even look alike.

Many people here compared Donald Trump to Rob Ford, and now Doug Ford is compared to Donald Trump. Enough said.

mmarshall

Thanks. I suspected that, but was not sure.

Not even close...but this is probably not the thread to get into that too deeply. We'd be off-topic.