Carlos Ghosn arrested...
01-03-19, 05:37 PM
#46
Lexus Champion
99% of cases are suspended here and includes any time spent in detention. Eg, if someone is handed a 1 year suspended sentence and they were held in detention like Ghosn has been, that will deducted from the one year and they usually will have a parole period after that one year which for a year sentence would normally be 1-3 years. I am guessing a suspended sentence in US would be similar where time spent in detention is subtracted of the sentence.
With all due respect, his guilt has not been proved.....the case hasn't even gone to trial yet, nor has he been formally indicted. While I admit I don't have a crystal ball, I am not (yet) convinced of his guilt....nor that of his assistant. He has been an auto exec for many years, gets a big salary every year, so the reporting requirements (one would think) are nothing new to him....he has had to deal with them for years.
For starters police will not arrest someone unless they have a good amount of evidence and if they have had Ghosn detained this long I really don't see a happy ending here. Like you said, he is probably used to the reporting requirements, but that does mean to say he can't make false reports and not be picked up for it for many years, especially if it is property and other means of income other than his salary. The tax department here usually only do audits every 5-7 years and it is my guess that he was going through an audit first and thats when they started finding inconsistencies (they said the investigation started over a year ago). This is not the first time that the tax department has looked at the allegations of Nissan buying real estate for his personal use (2013), but at that time it was said that it was not for Ghosn's personal use. But now it seems that the properties in question were in fact his personal use and should have paid tax on them. What you have to understand here is that its all about the interpretation of the law, while it is not illegal to have your company buy property, it has to be used by the company and not a single person like the CEO. I think this is where opinions are differing especially in Ghosn's camp.
As for your comments [the case hasn't even gone to trial yet, nor has he been formally indicted.] that is the way they do things here. Like I said earlier, before they would even consider detaining him in the first place (it has taken them over one year before they even detained him) they would have had to have a very , very solid case. What they are doing now is just trying to keep him in custody for as long as they can to get as much information as they can, b/c it becomes very hard to do so once he is out on bail.(Are these tactics fair, no, but that is how it is done here) From here they will in 99% of cases file formal charges and from my experience, I think Ghosn will be indicted.
There was a case I had experience with and I am not going to go into details, but a person stole something they should not have and the police got involved. There were two rooms and a hallway with one door at the end of the hallway and there was a camera on the hallway door and did not show the two doors inside that hallway. In the initial investigation there was camera proof that the person went into the hallway and one of the rooms which only took 30 seconds and was the only person who was recorded in a 5 minute period from when the person who was stole from put the item in that room and came back 5 mins later only to have it stolen. So there was only one person who went in one of those rooms and with that the police got a confession. Long story short, the person got off b/c the camera did not explicitly show that the person went into that particular room, even with the confession. What I am trying to say is, even with what I considered irrefutable evidence, the person was not ever detained in the manner that Ghosn is right now, they were issued warning b/c of the confession, but charged with no crime. So , I really do think there is not going to be a good outcome here for
99% of cases are suspended here and includes any time spent in detention. Eg, if someone is handed a 1 year suspended sentence and they were held in detention like Ghosn has been, that will deducted from the one year and they usually will have a parole period after that one year which for a year sentence would normally be 1-3 years. I am guessing a suspended sentence in US would be similar where time spent in detention is subtracted of the sentence.
With all due respect, his guilt has not been proved.....the case hasn't even gone to trial yet, nor has he been formally indicted. While I admit I don't have a crystal ball, I am not (yet) convinced of his guilt....nor that of his assistant. He has been an auto exec for many years, gets a big salary every year, so the reporting requirements (one would think) are nothing new to him....he has had to deal with them for years.
For starters police will not arrest someone unless they have a good amount of evidence and if they have had Ghosn detained this long I really don't see a happy ending here. Like you said, he is probably used to the reporting requirements, but that does mean to say he can't make false reports and not be picked up for it for many years, especially if it is property and other means of income other than his salary. The tax department here usually only do audits every 5-7 years and it is my guess that he was going through an audit first and thats when they started finding inconsistencies (they said the investigation started over a year ago). This is not the first time that the tax department has looked at the allegations of Nissan buying real estate for his personal use (2013), but at that time it was said that it was not for Ghosn's personal use. But now it seems that the properties in question were in fact his personal use and should have paid tax on them. What you have to understand here is that its all about the interpretation of the law, while it is not illegal to have your company buy property, it has to be used by the company and not a single person like the CEO. I think this is where opinions are differing especially in Ghosn's camp.
As for your comments [the case hasn't even gone to trial yet, nor has he been formally indicted.] that is the way they do things here. Like I said earlier, before they would even consider detaining him in the first place (it has taken them over one year before they even detained him) they would have had to have a very , very solid case. What they are doing now is just trying to keep him in custody for as long as they can to get as much information as they can, b/c it becomes very hard to do so once he is out on bail.(Are these tactics fair, no, but that is how it is done here) From here they will in 99% of cases file formal charges and from my experience, I think Ghosn will be indicted.
There was a case I had experience with and I am not going to go into details, but a person stole something they should not have and the police got involved. There were two rooms and a hallway with one door at the end of the hallway and there was a camera on the hallway door and did not show the two doors inside that hallway. In the initial investigation there was camera proof that the person went into the hallway and one of the rooms which only took 30 seconds and was the only person who was recorded in a 5 minute period from when the person who was stole from put the item in that room and came back 5 mins later only to have it stolen. So there was only one who went in one of those rooms and with that the police got a confession. Long story short, the person got off b/c the camera did not explicitly show that the person went into that particular room, even with the confession. What I am trying to say is, even with what I considered irrefutable evidence, the person was not ever detained in the manner that Ghosn is right now.
So , I really do think there is not going to be a good outcome here for Ghosn.
Last edited by Dave600hL; 01-03-19 at 05:43 PM.
01-03-19, 07:41 PM
#47
Lexus Fanatic
I am not really an expert in the field of international law......my previous comments were made mostly from articles that had already been published in the media about it. But it does seem like Japan does have some strict laws if you get nabbed for something. Look a what happened to Toyota exec Julie Hamp (some people were making jokes abut Julie "Hemp" that were really irrelevant). She got nabbed in Japan for carrying drugs (pain killers) in her suitcase that were perfectly legal in the U.S., and were given to her under a valid doctor's description. But, because they did not meet every little dot and tee of Japanese customs laws, she spent 20 days in prison until authorities, and her company bosses, could arrange her release. Ridiculous.
01-03-19, 08:23 PM
#48
Lexus Test Driver
You made some good points (your long response looks like one of my car reviews LOL) I am not really an expert in the field of international law......my previous comments were made mostly from articles that had already been published in the media about it. But it does seem like Japan does have some strict laws if you get nabbed for something. Look a what happened to Toyota exec Julie Hamp (some people were making jokes abut Julie "Hemp" that were really irrelevant). She got nabbed in Japan for carrying drugs (pain killers) in her suitcase that were perfectly legal in the U.S., and were given to her under a valid doctor's description. But, because they did not meet every little dot and tee of Japanese customs laws, she spent 20 days in prison until authorities, and her company bosses, could arrange her release. Ridiculous.
I am not really an expert in the field of international law......my previous comments were made mostly from articles that had already been published in the media about it. But it does seem like Japan does have some strict laws if you get nabbed for something. Look a what happened to Toyota exec Julie Hamp (some people were making jokes abut Julie "Hemp" that were really irrelevant). She got nabbed in Japan for carrying drugs (pain killers) in her suitcase that were perfectly legal in the U.S., and were given to her under a valid doctor's description. But, because they did not meet every little dot and tee of Japanese customs laws, she spent 20 days in prison until authorities, and her company bosses, could arrange her release. Ridiculous.
01-03-19, 09:08 PM
#49
Lexus Fanatic
The marijuana laws in the U.S. have become a mess.....legal in some states, illegal in others, medical-use legal in some states, medical-use only (with no casual-use allowed) in others, the basic compound (cannabis) legal for medical use in some states but not in others,....and Federal law technically, overriding state law, making all of it illegal in all 50 states. The only practical way, IMO, to settle it once and for all, is a Constitutional amendment dictating whether the states or the federal government are going to regulate or forbid pot.
This may sound like an overly-simplistic answer (and it probably is), but, IMO, a wise person avoids marijuana, period....particularly with idle, casual smoking. Putting any kind of smoke into one's lungs (marijuana or tobacco) is never a good idea. I lost my late father from lung-cancer, due to decades of chain-smoking unfiltered tobacco cigarettes....he passed away at just age 65.
And.....as for complications, yes, I'd say that Ghosn has more than his share of them right now.
Last edited by mmarshall; 01-03-19 at 09:12 PM.
01-03-19, 10:52 PM
#50
Lexus Champion
You made some good points (your long response looks like one of my car reviews LOL) I am not really an expert in the field of international law......my previous comments were made mostly from articles that had already been published in the media about it. But it does seem like Japan does have some strict laws if you get nabbed for something. Look a what happened to Toyota exec Julie Hamp (some people were making jokes abut Julie "Hemp" that were really irrelevant). She got nabbed in Japan for carrying drugs (pain killers) in her suitcase that were perfectly legal in the U.S., and were given to her under a valid doctor's description. But, because they did not meet every little dot and tee of Japanese customs laws, she spent 20 days in prison until authorities, and her company bosses, could arrange her release. Ridiculous.
I am not really an expert in the field of international law......my previous comments were made mostly from articles that had already been published in the media about it. But it does seem like Japan does have some strict laws if you get nabbed for something. Look a what happened to Toyota exec Julie Hamp (some people were making jokes abut Julie "Hemp" that were really irrelevant). She got nabbed in Japan for carrying drugs (pain killers) in her suitcase that were perfectly legal in the U.S., and were given to her under a valid doctor's description. But, because they did not meet every little dot and tee of Japanese customs laws, she spent 20 days in prison until authorities, and her company bosses, could arrange her release. Ridiculous.Hamp case gave oxycodone a bad name, say doctors
This is how drugs like oxycodone are handled in Japan and you need to follow those rules.
- The health ministry says anyone who intends to enter Japan carrying narcotics, including morphine, codeine, oxycodone, pethidine and hydrocodone for medical purposes, must obtain advance permission via an application form and medical certificate from a doctor outlining the need for the narcotics, the drugs’ names and the quantities prescribed. Only up to a month’s supply of prescription medicine can be brought into Japan.
Typically a Japanese citizen caught with that many pills will most of the time have to face some sort of punishment, such as a 6 month suspended sentence and 6-12 month parole period. Not all people will be charged, it depends on the circumstances and with Julie Hamp, it was obvious to them after they spoke with her over that detention period, that she had no idea how serious the crime was of what she did and that was a big reason for her being let go with no charges. To me, that is showing compassion towards her and her situation and no, the Japanese police did not ask for her resignation, she did that on her own.
01-04-19, 02:55 AM
#51
Heck, in most European countries you can give cellphone and car to your employees as part of compensation, and avoid paying stupidly high income taxes (and get tax deduction instead - company taxes are deducted and not paid), and I mean all your employees, not just salesman that need car to do their work.
Last edited by Big Andy; 01-04-19 at 03:00 AM.
01-04-19, 05:56 AM
#52
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
iTrader: (20)
^^ must be some advantage because company cars are way more common in uk than u.s. ... must be some extra benefit (tax saving usually) to employers and/or employees.
01-07-19, 02:19 AM
#53
Company cars became popular in the 70s as a way for companies to reward employees without breaking the Government's inflation tackling pay freezes. They remained tax advantageous to employees through the 80s and into the 90s. Since then the tax burden (classed as a benefit in kind) has been steadily ramped up. If you choose a low emissions vehicle (say 100g/km CO2 - hybrid etc) it can still work for a lower rate tax payer but my 3 series BMW costs me £3800 a year in tax so there's a strong argument for sending it back and taking a cash equivalent (still taxed but you get to choose whatever car you like and can add your own cash to it). Basically, the days of the "perk" car are over.
01-07-19, 02:27 PM
#54
Per the Wall Street Journal, Ghosn’s lawyer has demanded an Article 34 hearing which is set for Tuesday morning. This is an open court session that is not often requested, at which the reason for detention must be given. The advantage re Ghosn is that the detainee is typically given the opportunity to make a statement, which could influence local media and public opinion should this end up at trial.
Although some folks disagree with me, to this point the charges are securities law related and have nothing to do with taxes. I am not at all saying that tax law won’t come in to play at some point, but to date I have read of no charges by the National Tax Agency. In fact, from a 12/10 WSJ article: “In public statements, prosecutors have discussed only the alleged misstatements on Nissan financial reports. They have not said anything about possible misuse of company funds. Nor have they discussed taxes or tax evasion in connection with Mr. Ghosn.”
I have experience with US public company financial reporting and Securities and Exchange Commission rules, and Ghosn’s situation is comparable to an SEC investigation or litigation. As would happen with the SEC in the US, Nissan has also been charged. As this moves along, it will be interesting to see what happens, as some have said the unreported money cited by prosecutors reflected deferred compensation that Mr. Ghosn was due upon retirement but was not recorded as the amounts were not established. If Ghosn/Nissan are convicted, expect multiple lawsuits from Nissan shareholders (if not already filed), and actions by the tax authorities as well.
Although some folks disagree with me, to this point the charges are securities law related and have nothing to do with taxes. I am not at all saying that tax law won’t come in to play at some point, but to date I have read of no charges by the National Tax Agency. In fact, from a 12/10 WSJ article: “In public statements, prosecutors have discussed only the alleged misstatements on Nissan financial reports. They have not said anything about possible misuse of company funds. Nor have they discussed taxes or tax evasion in connection with Mr. Ghosn.”
I have experience with US public company financial reporting and Securities and Exchange Commission rules, and Ghosn’s situation is comparable to an SEC investigation or litigation. As would happen with the SEC in the US, Nissan has also been charged. As this moves along, it will be interesting to see what happens, as some have said the unreported money cited by prosecutors reflected deferred compensation that Mr. Ghosn was due upon retirement but was not recorded as the amounts were not established. If Ghosn/Nissan are convicted, expect multiple lawsuits from Nissan shareholders (if not already filed), and actions by the tax authorities as well.
01-07-19, 07:12 PM
#55
Lexus Champion
Per the Wall Street Journal, Ghosn’s lawyer has demanded an Article 34 hearing which is set for Tuesday morning. This is an open court session that is not often requested, at which the reason for detention must be given. The advantage re Ghosn is that the detainee is typically given the opportunity to make a statement, which could influence local media and public opinion should this end up at trial.
Although some folks disagree with me, to this point the charges are securities law related and have nothing to do with taxes. I am not at all saying that tax law won’t come in to play at some point, but to date I have read of no charges by the National Tax Agency. In fact, from a 12/10 WSJ article: “In public statements, prosecutors have discussed only the alleged misstatements on Nissan financial reports. They have not said anything about possible misuse of company funds. Nor have they discussed taxes or tax evasion in connection with Mr. Ghosn.”
I have experience with US public company financial reporting and Securities and Exchange Commission rules, and Ghosn’s situation is comparable to an SEC investigation or litigation. As would happen with the SEC in the US, Nissan has also been charged. As this moves along, it will be interesting to see what happens, as some have said the unreported money cited by prosecutors reflected deferred compensation that Mr. Ghosn was due upon retirement but was not recorded as the amounts were not established. If Ghosn/Nissan are convicted, expect multiple lawsuits from Nissan shareholders (if not already filed), and actions by the tax authorities as well.
Although some folks disagree with me, to this point the charges are securities law related and have nothing to do with taxes. I am not at all saying that tax law won’t come in to play at some point, but to date I have read of no charges by the National Tax Agency. In fact, from a 12/10 WSJ article: “In public statements, prosecutors have discussed only the alleged misstatements on Nissan financial reports. They have not said anything about possible misuse of company funds. Nor have they discussed taxes or tax evasion in connection with Mr. Ghosn.”
I have experience with US public company financial reporting and Securities and Exchange Commission rules, and Ghosn’s situation is comparable to an SEC investigation or litigation. As would happen with the SEC in the US, Nissan has also been charged. As this moves along, it will be interesting to see what happens, as some have said the unreported money cited by prosecutors reflected deferred compensation that Mr. Ghosn was due upon retirement but was not recorded as the amounts were not established. If Ghosn/Nissan are convicted, expect multiple lawsuits from Nissan shareholders (if not already filed), and actions by the tax authorities as well.
Well, the session just finished here and Ghson has taken the defense that Nissan has set him up. That he did not receive any money that was not approved by Nissan. If that is the case it should be pretty easy to prove that all the bonuses and money paid was not done under the table. But, there still exists the accusation of not fully declaring his earnings, b/c at this point nothing seems to be said about that. But, again, b/c it is a closed hearing it will probably take a few days to find out what the lawyers have argued. At this point, they want bail to be set so he does not have to be in detention and if that is approved he could be let out by next Tuesday.
01-08-19, 07:17 AM
#56
For those that have access to the Wall Street Journal online there is a summary by Sean McLain of what transpired at the hearing where Ghosn proceeded to deliver a point-by-point rebuttal of the accusations.
Mr. McLain said that more than 1,000 people sought seats in the courtroom, according to the court, but only 14 were made available to the public, not including media.
Re bail, “Judge Yuichi Tada said Mr. Ghosn should remain behind bars because he is a flight risk and because he might destroy evidence if released.”
Mr. McLain said that more than 1,000 people sought seats in the courtroom, according to the court, but only 14 were made available to the public, not including media.
Re bail, “Judge Yuichi Tada said Mr. Ghosn should remain behind bars because he is a flight risk and because he might destroy evidence if released.”
06-05-19, 04:12 PM
#57
Lexus Champion
Well, it looks like the French are going to open a case against Carlos Ghosn for unclear expenses hes clocked up when he was CEO at Renault. This is just going from bad to worse.
French finance minister says Renault to bring case against Carlos Ghosn over shady expenses
French finance minister says Renault to bring case against Carlos Ghosn over shady expenses
06-05-19, 04:19 PM
#58
Lexus Fanatic
Yep, if Renault is going to end up buying out FCA, they can't have people (even former ones) wasting company funds. Gotta have enough left in the bank to cover the check.
06-06-19, 11:53 AM
#59
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
iTrader: (20)
ghosn is gone... 
06-06-19, 11:59 AM
#60
Lexus Fanatic