mmarshall

Yes I know...the 430 was in between, which, if not the most solidly-built, was probably the most comfortable LS, a least to my tastes.

Anyhow, back to the Enclave......are you serious about looking at it as a Pacifica replacement?

SW17LS

No, there were two generations of the LS400, then the LS430 was the third generation.

Of the 4 LS sedans I've owned the LS430 was my least favorite. Nothing more comfortable about it than the LS460, especially my new one with the LWB and the air suspension, but it was a very sloppy car.

I would be, but my wife is still adamant she has to have a minivan.

mmarshall

Yes, I know.....that is what I meant. Sorry if it was unclear. I was so impressed with the 430 that I considered buying one. But, I decided that it was probably too much to spend on a car, and the AWD LS models had not yet come out.

Depends on what you mean by "slop". If you are refering to a soft, floaty, isolated suspension over bumps, that's exactly what I like...within reason. I'm not one of these that has to have Formula 1 handling in everything I drive.

Since she's the one that (presumably) drives the two kids around most of the time, and has to not only get them in and out of the child-seats regularly but also load packages and bags in and out, I'd probably agree with her. It's hard to beat the practicality of a sliding-door minivan.

SW17LS

A car doesn't have to handle like a mess in order to ride great. My LS460L rides just as well as my LS430 did, but feels much more stable, secure and handles way better. Makes the car much more enjoyable to drive. My LS400 was the same way, much more enjoyable to drive overall than the LS430.

Just look at the skidpad numbers. The LS400 is .81, LS460 is .82 the LS430 is .73 which is a HUGE difference. And again, I've owned all 3, all of them on air suspension and they all ride very similarly.

To put that in perspective, a Chevy Tahoe has a skidpad result of .72.


For sure, its her call. The sliding doors are really the thing.

mmarshall

Yes, I'm familiar with skidpad and cornering-G figures (and, as a pilot, I experienced some G-forces in Flight-Training). For everyday driving, however, I see a .72 or .73 as a relatively moot point. Most of us, most of the time, on the road, don't come anywhere near to that.....unless we are traveling at a good clip of speed and maybe a deer or small child suddenly darts out in front of us, and we have to swerve. Then, yes, sharp handling can be of more importance.

Don't want to get too far off-topic, but, on the subject of sliding doors, one very interesting design that is long out of production (and it was a little smaller than today's minivans) I think would be ideal for today's market. You probably remember them, but, if not, it was the Mitsubishi Expo LRV...which, in rebadged form, was also marketed as the Eagle Summit Wagon and Plymouth Colt Vista (they were essentially triplets). They were relatively high, softly-sprung, had a high center of gravity, and leaned over like a beach ball in turns, but were of an ideal compact size for a small family and tight spaces, roomy and space-efficient inside, and had a rear sliding door on the passenger side, way from traffic. They were marketed in the early 1990s, though previous versions, with two conventional rear doors, had appeared earlier. With today's suspension/tire/steering improvements, the handling would probably be much better, and IMO it would be an ideal vehicle for much of today's errand-running. So would the slightly smaller ex-Kia Rondo, though the Rondo lacked a sliding door.

SW17LS

The point is not absolute roadholding at the limit. The lateral G's are a measure indicative of how the vehicle holds the road. Like 0-60 times matter even though you don't do a drag strip takeaway at every green light, its a measure indicative of how briskly a vehicle can accelerate.

What those measures show is that the LS460 has a lot more grip and a lot more handling security, and it does that without a penalty in ride quality. Why wouldn't you want that?

Remember I've owned both cars (2 LS460s), you've driven them each once or twice, and I'm sure it was a long time ago.

This exact thing happens! Every day!

mmarshall

You didn't comment on the Expo LRV....might not have seen my addition. Do you agree that, with a better suspension, it would be ideal for today's market?

SW17LS

No, too small for a utility vehicle in the US.

Johnhav430

The minivan is ridiculously handy. When we went to Seattle we had 5 bags since my wife likes to pack and travel lightly. The Caravan GT said is that all you got?! But it did handle poorly even with whatever Michelins it comes with, meaning due to the rain. Now that I've rented this vehicle more than once I don't get the power side doors they seem inconvenient, I am not aware of a button to operate other than in front of the pass aka b pillars if that's what they are. And the rear wiper is off center which is really odd. But this is vacation and the car did fine with the $3.30 NW regular gasoline, around 23 mpg overall to include city driving.

edit plus the GT badge makes this car

Johnhav430

The .73g on the LS430 is likely with the optional 245's lol which I have.

Seriously, if I take this car on the onramp to one of the bridges I use, it starts squealing at maybe 5 mph over the limit (like 40 mph).

The next day, take the BMW and at 65 it's wanting more. Two different cars but even a S550 does over .8 g's. I think it's just indicative of old technology more than anything else. The 3rd gen LS is basically late 1999 technology. A Nissan Maxima still had a beam axle at that point (I see them coming back on the FWD based cargo vehicles like the Transit etc.)

SW17LS

Oh yeah, its a pig lol. Nice riding pig, but still a pig.

The LS400 had over .8 roadholding and its obviously even older than the LS430. They just went softer with the LS430 and reversed course with the LS460.

Johnhav430

One place I would not fault the LS430....the steering has a good amount of effort and feedback. The wheel is huge and I wish it were smaller, but the effort is higher than my 1998 Maxima. Light steering was always the 4th gen Maxima's weakness, besides the beam axle.

One day I was near the BMW dealer's Service Mobile, so I honked as I passed on the right. When I got to work I texted the guy who drives it saying it was me. He replied, oh, that was you? I knew it wasn't a BMW with that gigantic wood steering wheel! lol Good guy, lives in our town and I have seen him driving since 2003. I only met him in person around 4 years ago at the dealer (my dealer).

And don't get me wrong, I love my LS430. Love is a strong word. It's just not a handling machine, but still very nice.