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You drive a new A8 you’re still going to get comments, and people are still going to have a window into your socioeconomic status. I know this because of all the years I’ve spent driving the LS and also cheaper Lexus models and non luxury cars. I get way more comments in the LS than I did in my GS or my ESs, and more in the LWB LS than the SWB LS. A lot of them are positive, but I’ve gotten some snarky comments from people too. Nobody ever noticed any of the other cars. The LS is about as nondescript as a luxury car gets too.
I'm not really, I just call it like I see it. The point is badges and status mean a lot to a great many people, a much larger percentage of people that spend $100,000 on a sedan than people who spend $40,000 on a sedan. A huge part of why a consumer spends $100,000 is status...whether they admit it or not. Like you said, you don't want the status that comes with a luxury badge. Well...you just admitted that status exists and it impacts your purchase decisions.
I will say though, the reason I have an LS460L and not a G90 is status. I paid more for a car that really wasn't "better" because of the brand. I like the styling of the LS more than the G90, but as a car the G90 is really every bit as good. Thats really the point, all of these cars are very similar, LS, S Class, 7 Series, A8, G90...they all drive very similarly, ride very similarly, are similarly as comfortable, technology is similar (with some advanced exceptions in the A8 especially, but also the S and 7), the bottom line as to what car somebody chooses has a lot to do with what they prioritize. Clearly status is important enough to me that I would spend $20k more than a G90 for an LS, but not so important I would spend $20-30k more than the LS for an S Class. To many others, it is important enough for them to do that...which is why they sell so many S Classes.
We get it. You feel the need to say something about yourself to the world via the means of an "expensive" (relative term) luxury car and you care deeply about making sure your "status" is known when you pull up to fancy restaurants. To assume that this is the case for "most" people who choose to purchase these cars is a blanket statement and a ridiculous one at that. Someone who truly has the means to afford these types of vehicles doesn't need to scream it to the world and make it known, they simply just "do."
Growing up, my parents had S500s/S550s/other MBs/high-end AMGs/etc. It wasn't about status. It was the norm. All of our neighbors did as well. No one batted an eyelash at an S-Class. An S-Class was the Camry of the neighborhood. Your average family sedan cruiser. The average person doesn't know anything about specific models from any car manufacturer. They just see the brand. Why do you think C-Classes and 3-Series are everywhere? These are the types of buyers that sheepishly care about letting their "status" be known.
Where I live now, an S-Class is still not a status symbol. Neither is a Lexus/BMW/Audi/Tesla for that matter. They're a dime a dozen. Even S63s/S65s/G550 4x4^2 are a common sighting and can be found parked on the street on multiple corners at a time (not an exaggeration). The only times nowadays I get impressed by a vehicle in my neighborhood is when I see a Ferrari/Lambo/Rolls but this is becoming so frequent that it's kind of expected at this point.
I'd bet that some of the people that come to our private neighborhood gym in their Lambos and Rolls-Royces could care less about "status." They're simply their means of transportation. My point is, not everyone has an agenda that they try to blast to the world via something as silly as an automobile.
We get it. You feel the need to say something about yourself to the world via the means of an "expensive" (relative term) luxury car and you care deeply about making sure your "status" is known when you pull up to fancy restaurants. To assume that this is the case for "most" people who choose to purchase these cars is a blanket statement and a ridiculous one at that. Someone who truly has the means to afford these types of vehicles doesn't need to scream it to the world and make it known, they simply just "do”.
What a fantastic post. This is what I have always thought. The most well off people I have ever known just do, there is not much thought about it. One customer who I used to have who is now retired used to drive around in a Lincoln Continental, I knew it was used because he never had one that was new, this would been the 90s Continental he drove around in the mid 00s.
What a fantastic post. This is what I have always thought. The most well off people I have ever known just do, there is not much thought about it. One customer who I used to have who is now retired used to drive around in a Lincoln Continental, I knew it was used because he never had one that was new, this would been the 90s Continental he drove around in the mid 00s.
Thank you. My father did something similar. As a business-owner, like yourself, he never drove his S-Classes to work. He always drove his 10+ year old Acura with 200,000 miles and non-functioning airbags. Not everyone buys something "as ostentatious as an S-Class" with status in mind.
I'm certainly not an expert, but I've been an avid fan of luxury cars since I was a child, I have more than a passing understanding of that market segment, and at the age of 37 I have already purchased 5 luxury cars...
Do you seriously not see the role status has in the purchase of luxury goods, especially luxury cars? How can you not see it?!
I stand by what I said, status is a huge factor in the purchase of a car like this, and people who buy them do care about status, and if they say they don't they're lying.
The LS was an immediate success because it was DRAMATICALLY cheaper than the competition. Without that value proposition it would not have been as successful. It took years and years for Lexus to get within spitting distance of the big German players when it comes to prestige, and they still are not there. Lexus is a big value proposition seller compared to Mercedes, BMW and increasingly Audi. If Lexus cars weren't cheaper...people wouldn't buy them. Why is that? Status.
I'm not? I bought a $90,000 flagship luxury sedan 10 months ago, I bought an $80,000 flagship luxury sedan 3 years before that. I didn't chose the one I bought because it was cheaper than the new LS500, I chose it because I liked it better. I am absolutely that buyer.
I chose the LS over a new S Class because it was cheaper and because I didn't want something as ostentatious as the S Class. The status of the S Class actually deterred me from getting one.
I don't agree, status is still a huge motivator when it comes to someone's desire to get a luxury car.
It just sounds like you are projecting your desires, feelings, and your motivations to getting a luxury car and trying to say that applies to all their buyers/owners. Status, maybe statement, are motivators to many people who buy expensive cars but it not as big or the only really motivator as you keep implying, especially these days with leasing(renting) luxury cars being so popular.
You did not even say it was a big factor or that it was most, you said everyone who buys these types of cars are making a statement and it is a status purchase.
This is the statement what most people were disagreeing with you with. But, nobody buys a high image anything without wanting it to make some sort of statement about them, anybody who says they don't is lying. Even me, part of driving a big flagship Lexus is having a car that makes a statement about me. Big flashy luxury car is a status purchase.
Statement and status symbol motivation means a buyer is choosing a car more about what they think other people think about them or perceive about them as opposed to what they want and desire in a vehicle, it is more about feelings, pride, ego, then the actual car. Statement/status symbol is not a priority for as many people who buy nicer cars, especially enthusiasts as you think. Many including me like cars for the car and are not concerned about what others think by our purchases, it just happens that it is mainly more expensive, higher status vehicles that tend to be the nicest, have the most features, biggest engines, most performance, etc. It is the same with more expensive things in general, they are generally nicer whether that applies to cars, clothes, electronics, guns, etc but the motivator for many buying them is not status or making a statement or what other people think, it is because they are nicer and the buyer wants a nicer item, many could care less what others think. If I find a cheaper item with the same quality/styling and is just as nice as a more expensive item I want but the cheaper item has no real status I would not hesitate for a second to get it even if others may not have heard of it or brand snobs won't be impressed.
The LS and Legend were still expensive Japanese sedans at the time, yes value certainly played in their purchases and it still does but it also showed that people will spend more money on brands with no status or less status if they like the car, the LS and Legend and NSX for that matter did eventually take sales from BMW, Mercedes, and Ferrari in future generations that got more expensive but there will always be a value proposition when it comes to Japanese brands compared to European brands. If you are just buying for status or making a statement you aren't going to be buying a Japanese brand.
You are really not that status symbol/statement buyer even though you are saying you are based on what you just said, you did not like the brand new LS500 even though it has more status and makes more of a statement then a older generation LS and you did not get a S class because of how much more expensive it is, you don't feel it is worth paying so much more then a Lexus(which I agree with). If you were just a status symbol/statement buyer none of that really would have mattered, you simply would have got the newest most expensive vehicle because you care more about what others think or perceive about the purchase, not necessarily what you like and the vehicle itself.
2019 Audi A8 L Review | Brilliant engineering in an unassuming wrapper
Extreme digitization and all the hardware necessary for Level 3 autonomy
Remember that unassuming guy from high school who turned out to be weirdly and completely brilliant once you got to know him? You would have never guessed that beneath his quiet façade were valedictorian smarts and presidential ambition. The 2019 Audi A8L is that guy.
Allow me to explain.
Back when Audi was scheming on how to steal would-be BMW 7 Series, Lexus LS and Mercedes-Benz S-Class buyers with their next-gen A8, they threw everything they knew (and a few things they didn't) at future-proofing their flagship sedan. First and foremost, the big four-door was intended to be the world's first production Level 3*autonomous vehicle. Using an arsenal of visualizing aids — a long-range radar, a front camera, four mid-range radars, several 360-degree cameras, up to 12 ultrasound sensors, and the world's first-ever laser scanner — the A8 is capable of creating a three-dimensional map of its immediate surrounds and "look" up to 328 feet ahead.
But a funny thing happened on the way to the future: While the next-gen A8 was being developed, the U.S. regulatory process shifted from federal guidance to state-dictated mandates, meaning autonomous technology would need to be approved on a one-by-one, state-by-state basis. While the A8 retains the same architecture that was compatible with Level 3 autonomy, it lacks the redundancy systems that enable the car to completely take over driving duties. Incidentally, Europe also hasn't finalized legal guidelines for Level 3 autonomy, but when that solidifies Audi will roll out Traffic Jam Assistant, in Germany first. So for the time being, the A8 is strictly classified as Level 2. "We're very clear on the fact that you're still driving the car," Audi product manager Anthony Foulk told*Autoblog.*"It's assisted driving, not self-driving."
OK, then. That said, the theme of extreme digitization still carries into the interior design, even if the A8 can't (yet) drive itself. In the interest of creating a clean, aesthetically sleek cockpit, no fewer than 35 buttons have been eliminated, replaced with a 10.1-inch black panel touchscreen and another 8.6-inch touchscreen below it. The only hard buttons that remain are a volume/power **** and a few other key controls. Rounding out the flatscreen theme is Audi's next-generation virtual cockpit, which places a larger, higher-resolution monitor ahead of the steering wheel for a Google Maps and gauge cluster display. The new interface is dubbed MMI touch response, and uses haptic and audio feedback.
The good news? The system is intuitive and easy to use, with thoughtful details like small, dedicated touch-sensitive sliders that enable you to open and control the airflow of HVAC vents that are elegantly hidden behind swiveling veneer doors. That feature is a relief, as the Porsche Panamera's similar interface is so extremely de-cluttered that the direction of the air vents can't be changed without delving into an electronic menu.
However, the elimination of traditional switchgear (save key controls like a volume and power ****) isn't necessarily a 100 percent win/win. While it takes a firm press to trigger haptic feedback, the system can be switched to heat-sensitive inputs that work more like an iPhone's screen. But as well as the system works, there's still something to be said for the feeling of interacting with a mechanical switch, especially when it's as nicely weighted as the hardware on the outgoing A8. Try aiming for a precise spot on the screen with your forefinger while you're traveling over a bumpy road, and you'll find that it takes more attention than it should to complete a simple task. While touchscreens offer a tidy visual package, there's an element of the interactive ergonomic experience that's been lost to technology.
Beyond the dazzling touchscreens, the A8's interior elegantly combines nicely finished surfaces — open-pore woods, brushed aluminum trim, piano black bits and soft Valcona leather, which is Audi's derivation of Nappa leather — into a harmoniously appointed space. The cabin feels minimalist but sophisticated and pleasant, as does the driver experience in the 3.0-liter turbocharged V6 model we tested along the gorgeous coastal stretches of Highway 1. The 335-horsepower mild*hybrid*engine couples with a ZF eight-speed to produce quiet, silky acceleration.
While adjustable drive mode settings change the drivetrain, suspension and steering settings, don't expect the A8 to transform into an R8 at the touch of a button: the changes are subtle, with an overall bias towards smoothness and comfort over outright performance. There's decent power on tap, but passing slow-moving rental cars along Highway 1 requires some planning; don't expect explosive forward motion, but rather a linear escalation of speed and nearly imperceptible gear changes.
With a hefty curb weight of 4,751 pounds (around 250 lbs more than the previous model, due to the added weight of the 48-volt electrical system and extra equipment), the A8 feels less eager than you might expect. Its claimed 0-60 time of 5.6 seconds makes for adequate oomph for brisk driving; expect a more aggressive, V8-powered S version next year. As for the active driver assistance systems like lane assist, don't count on it on the twisties: the A8's lane keeping technology works well enough on straight or barely bending roads, but twistier routes allowed the car to veer over lane markers, making it a wiser choice to simply take the wheel yourself.
The new dynamic four-wheel-steering system, a $1,950 option on top of the A8's $84,795 starting price, makes a noticeable improvement in the car's maneuverability and handling. It reacts in 20 milliseconds (much quicker than the Q7's older system, which requires 50 milliseconds to respond), countersteering for agility at lower speeds and steering in phase for stability at higher speeds. But here's an interesting detail: The new setup also actively steers the*front*wheels, sometimes overriding driver inputs to turn the wheels more (to rotate the car) or less (to alleviate an understeer situation) when it decides it's needed. The system considers data from steering wheel input, speed, and vehicle dynamics, and is surprisingly seamless in operation.
Back-to-back drives on a closed autocross course revealed a dramatic difference: The A8 with the four-wheel steering switched off felt big and sometimes unwieldy, and unable to make one tight corner without a three-point turn. With four-wheel steering switched on by an engineer in the passenger seat, not only did the A8 turn more sharply and easily, it exhibited better body control during an abrupt lane change and didn't require a three-point turn to execute the tight corner. The four-wheel system reduces the turning radius by 3.6 feet, shrinking it to a turning circle smaller than an A4's.
The A8's standard adaptive air suspension system works well at absorbing bumps and potholes, but a demonstration of the A8's soon-to-be-available AI active suspension system uses next-level tech to smooth out the ride. Working in conjunction with road scanners and the car's 48-volt architecture, a small electric motor is capable of extending the suspension when a pothole is detected, enabling the car to lift slightly and then glide over the imperfection. The technology works up to around 37 mph, and manages to greatly minimize the body movement as the wheels negotiate the bump or dip. Driving over several speed bumps on a test track revealed that the system works well. While the Mercedes-Benz Magic Body Control technology uses a similar concept, M-B's hydraulic system is slower reacting and can only push the wheel down, while Audi's can push or lift the wheel in order to improve the ride.
All that talk about technology and engineering inevitably brings us back to the A8's looks. Remember that bit about its unassuming appearance? While Audi describes this new design language as being "flowing" with a "muscular vehicle body" and citing the brand's legendary "Quattro blisters" from the swollen wheel arches of their rally-inspired predecessors, the A8 still manages to look so understated that it blends into its surroundings. Compared to the biggest Benz and Bimmer sedans, the Audi seems somewhat dowdy; against the spindle-grilled Lexus LS, it's minimalist and understated. But that's the thing: The Audi A8 is a brilliantly engineered machine that seems more intent on getting everything right than serving up a distinct personality.
If you don't mind the somewhat clinical styling, you'll get a sophisticated, capable übersedan that does what it does rather well. However, if you absolutely positively must have the most engaging, dynamic package in a flagship sedan, you might want to wait for the spicier S version, which should offer incrementally edgier styling and performance. Regardless of where you fall on its (admittedly subjective) styling, Audi's new A8 L takes a quantum leap forward and puts its competitors on edge, shaking up a competitive segment with technology and features that will eventually trickle down to lesser vehicles.
This is the statement what most people were disagreeing with you with. But, nobody buys a high image anything without wanting it to make some sort of statement about them, anybody who says they don't is lying. Even me, part of driving a big flagship Lexus is having a car that makes a statement about me. Big flashy luxury car is a status purchase.
Here's a blanket statement that's true: All people who buy a Toyota and put Lexus badges on it care about status, but not all luxury car buyers care about status. My $.02 below.
I buy used so my voice may be slightly muted in this convo about status, but my reasons for buying Lexus have nothing to do with status. I agree it's a blanket statement to say that all buyers include status as a factor of ending up in a luxury car. Here's why: I think certain cars exist only in the luxury market. For me as an LS owner, I can't find the level of comfort, serenity, or "plushness" that I want in a non-luxury brand (and I like to drive a large sedan which doesn't really exist in the non-luxury market). Plus, I love Toyota reliability based on almost 20 years of ownership, so all signs point to Lexus for what I want in a car. I'm not being dis-honest saying it doesn't factor in my decision at all. I'd buy an Avalon if it was a bit larger, offered a ride more comparable to my LS, and had an engine that felt and sounded like the LS 400, 430, or 460.
Things like luxury watches are a more applicable argument for a blanket statement on status. The watch market is flooded with good looking faces on a stainless steel bracelet for $500 or less. You pay $6k and up to get a Rolex - the watch serves the same purpose but the prestige and status is part of the equation to justify the extra money. I just don't see cars the same way.
I buy used so my voice may be slightly muted in this convo about status, but my reasons for buying Lexus have nothing to do with status. .
Why would your voice be slightly muted if you buy used? If you go to restaurant, who would know right? I just think that if there is a justification for this or that it is different if you just do it like another member had said.
Why would your voice be slightly muted if you buy used? If you go to restaurant, who would know right? I just think that if there is a justification for this or that it is different if you just do it like another member had said.
My logic in that statement was I buy towards the peak of the depreciation curve in a luxury brand, so the price to enter into the luxury car is not as substantial as someone buying new. Some would say that an old(er) luxury car doesn't carry the same level of status as a new(er) one.
After reading multiple posts, I'm going to agree with Steve here. At a specific point in price, its all about the clout and statement. A good example is the LS and S-Class. You pay more the for the LS for status and like-wise, you would pay more for the S-Class for more status on top of that.
There is a reason why cars like the Stinger or Genesis undercuts the competition. Because they know they can't sell based off of prestige alone.
A Stinger GT2, which is an amazing car by the way, cost about 5K less than an Audi S4, 8K less than a 340i and 10K plus less than a C43 AMG. Similarity - for the Genesis brand as well.
They know they can't sell their cars if its the same price against the Germans or Lexus because their badge and brand doesn't carry enough weight. Its not that their cars are bad. Their cars a great. They just don't have the statement and clout people are looking for. When you pay well over 50K plus onto a car, you are making a statement. Its a fashion accessory. Its a lifestyle.
Sure - you are buying for yourself. But a part of that equation is want to front clout. Image matters to some people - if it didn't, we would all be in KIA Rios.
I'd give the S class the win for interior design. So much warmer and probably an edge for seats (especially for rear seat recliners). But this Audi is still beautiful - definitely a cold techy feel to the interior compared to the Benz. A car whose owner will need a microfiber cloth to keep all the smudges of the touchscreens.
The other quibble is those ridiculous fake exhaust vents at the rear. Obviously a styling gimmick to complete the lines at the back. But for a $100 large that's a cheap thing to do.
OTH that active suspension seems to be able to modulate itself up and down for serene pothole free cruising. Nice.
We get it. You feel the need to say something about yourself to the world via the means of an "expensive" (relative term) luxury car and you care deeply about making sure your "status" is known when you pull up to fancy restaurants. To assume that this is the case for "most" people who choose to purchase these cars is a blanket statement and a ridiculous one at that. Someone who truly has the means to afford these types of vehicles doesn't need to scream it to the world and make it known, they simply just "do."
What is with the personal attacks? If I cared that deeply about status, I would have gotten an S Class, not an LS and certainly not the outgoing LS model. I'm the only person being real here about this. If I didn't care about status to a certain degree I wouldn't drive the car I'm driving.
Growing up, my parents had S500s/S550s/other MBs/high-end AMGs/etc. It wasn't about status. It was the norm. All of our neighbors did as well. No one batted an eyelash at an S-Class. An S-Class was the Camry of the neighborhood. Your average family sedan cruiser. The average person doesn't know anything about specific models from any car manufacturer. They just see the brand. Why do you think C-Classes and 3-Series are everywhere? These are the types of buyers that sheepishly care about letting their "status" be known.
They were still status purchases, they owned the car/sort of car that tied them into their social circle. I also grew up in a place where expensive luxury cars were a regular occurrence, in fact I still live there...doesn't mean that the buyers who drove those cars don't care about status.
Heres a question, if your parents had bought a Camry, would people have looked at them oddly? Thought they were perhaps having money issues? Why is that? Because the S Class carries a certain status with it.
Originally Posted by UDel
It just sounds like you are projecting your desires, feelings, and your motivations to getting a luxury car and trying to say that applies to all their buyers/owners. Status, maybe statement, are motivators to many people who buy expensive cars but it not as big or the only really motivator as you keep implying, especially these days with leasing(renting) luxury cars being so popular.
I never said it was the only motivator, I said it was a motivator, and anybody who has one and tells you its not a motivator for them isn't being honest with you. I stand by that statement.
You did not even say it was a big factor or that it was most, you said everyone who buys these types of cars are making a statement and it is a status purchase.
That isn't at all what I said.
This is the statement what most people were disagreeing with you with. But, nobody buys a high image anything without wanting it to make some sort of statement about them, anybody who says they don't is lying. Even me, part of driving a big flagship Lexus is having a car that makes a statement about me. Big flashy luxury car is a status purchase.
I stand by that statement. I wasn't saying it was the only motivator, but it is a motivator whether people admit it to you or not.
The LS and Legend were still expensive Japanese sedans at the time, yes value certainly played in their purchases and it still does but it also showed that people will spend more money on brands with no status or less status if they like the car,
No, it showed they will spend significantly less on a car with no status or less status if they like the car. Show me one segment, even today, where Lexus sells a car for a higher average transaction price than Mercedes or BMW? Lexus success is predicated on value, and when the LS400 came out it was a HUGE value, as much as 1/2 as expensive as comparable German luxury cars.
You are really not that status symbol/statement buyer even though you are saying you are based on what you just said, you did not like the brand new LS500 even though it has more status and makes more of a statement then a older generation LS and you did not get a S class because of how much more expensive it is, you don't feel it is worth paying so much more then a Lexus(which I agree with). If you were just a status symbol/statement buyer none of that really would have mattered, you simply would have got the newest most expensive vehicle because you care more about what others think or perceive about the purchase, not necessarily what you like and the vehicle itself.
I'm not, I never said I was. I said that status does matter to me on some level.
Originally Posted by BippuLexus
After reading multiple posts, I'm going to agree with Steve here. At a specific point in price, its all about the clout and statement. A good example is the LS and S-Class. You pay more the for the LS for status and like-wise, you would pay more for the S-Class for more status on top of that.
Even their press photos show how horrible the glare/reflections will be.
I thought the previous generation A8 interiors were best in class at the time, the new one does nothing for me, just looks cold and dull and a fingerprint magnet and not even really luxurious.
I thought the previous generation A8 interiors were best in class at the time, the new one does nothing for me, just looks cold and dull and a fingerprint magnet and not even really luxurious.
They were rich and luxe, but they are old school 90s. The Genesis G90 is the one for buyers who like that type of interior. Wood like is out, other than open pore matte wood surfaces.
Audi these days seems to be about tech, and that's not a bad thing. The exteriors might not change much, but the interiors reflect a new reality. The touchscreens look great, but they are being criticized for haptic feedback. That will get sorted out soon enough.
We don't have tiny tablets with dials or mobile devices that are fliphones do we? The world has moved on.
10-17-18, 05:39 AM
