Johnhav430

I had always thought the best part of any BMW, was the steering. As mentioned, when parents pass their 2006-2012 BMW 3 to a kid, the kid will post on the forum what can they do about the steering, something is wrong with the car they just got from their parents. Interesting that Germans used to seem to engineer oppositely from Japanese. I thought my 1998 Maxima SE was a pretty good car, with the exception of the bad beam axle and loose steering (and dangerously cheap brakes for a car that was unbridled and could reach 137 mph). When I went back and forth between the '16 328i loaner that I had for 4 mos., and my 1998 Maxima, the Maxima steering suddenly felt tighter and way more effort than the 328i. How sad is that? Also, Japanese cars require a fairly higher effort on the clutch, German cars do not. Where German cars have a firm brake pedal. Seems like the philosophy is totally different, or it used to be...

I haven't driven a car yet where you could press a button, and the steering went back to 2007. Not even Porsche (who many say do it the best, but not as good as before).

The other thing, I thought Maxima was the flagship. On my window sticker it says that, and pretty sure it said 4DSC (I still have it somewhere). If I'm not mistaken, a Maxima can still have halogen headlamps, in 2018? And the rearview mirror was really cheap too (this is something even Hyundai has totally stepped up on).

SW17LS

Johnhav430

The point is the new 2018 Maxima is also afflicted to the point of having less feel than many cars with EPS. The new Pathfinder was as well to a great degree, not. The Rogue was even worse than the Maxima. Overruled. Maybe you didn't notice.

mmarshall

For older models with the hydraulic steering, absolutely it was......along with a near-perfect combination of handling and ride comfort in chassis-tuning, even on Sport-Package versions. There are reasons why BMWs regularly were the pick of the auto enthusiast magazines. A lot of that (but not all) went away on newer ones.



The older Mazda sedans I owned had American-spec halogens....I never had any problem with them, even on the darkest roads. In fact, my experience is that they lit the road up better than some of the newer Xenon and HID stuff. And all of the new Maximas have LED for the Daytime Running Lights.

In fact, at one time, Nissan tried using Xenons in the Maxima, and was sued over them being theft-prone. Perhaps (?) that is why they went back to halogens.

https://www.nytimes.com/2004/03/09/n...eadlights.html

LexBob2

My last 4-5 cars have had electric power steering and all of them have been fine. A little different than hydraulic? Yes, but not the end of the world.

SW17LS

SW17LS

mmarshall

Agreed it's not always that big a deal, but nothing felt like an older BMW or Porsche. In fact, I was so impressed with the steering and chassis that I almost bought a last-generation BMW 335i (it was MUCH more comfortable than its rock-hard sister M3, which IMO was actually more suited to a track). But in the end I felt it was priced too high for my liking, and they turned out to be unreliable, especially with the fuel pumps. I also did not care for most of the BMW dealerships, which, at the time, tended to be snobbish and aristocratic.

BrownPride

It's so sad as I have been a long-time BMW fanatic, as have my family. They used to feel so glued to the road and you could feel the pavement through your fingertips. When I drove the F10 5-series I was in shock and knew that BMW would be neutering their future cars which is exactly what they did. The E90 was the last great 3-series and the E60 was the last great 5-series.

I've test driven an F80 M4 and despite being heavy it still did not have the "feel" of BMWs of yore. It was a fast but isolating car. I drove a Cayman S right after and even that didn't have the steering feel of older Porsches, although it was certainly a more lively and fun car than the M4.

EPS sucks big time. Cars have just become fast but numb cruisers filled with unnecessary tech. The Germans have spent so long trying to capture the same customer that they have built the same exact car.

I am still partial to BMW as they do offer more enthusiast options than other manufacturers, but I hope to move onto the likes of Porsche as they still seem to be focused on engineering drivers' cars.

Johnhav430

The point is the EPS is not the same across all makes. imho, the worst is the Nissan Rogue. The Nissan Maxima which I drove in Feb., is pretty bad. The 2018 Chevy Malibu, is not bad at all.

If a person says, I just got a brand new Rogue, and the steering is fine, it's not the end of the world, I would realize our tastes are quite different in what we are looking for in a car. I would suggest trying the new Chevy Malibu just as an example of EPS being fine. Then drive the Maxima again.

mmarshall

I tend to miss the hydraulic feel myself (especially with BMW), but agree that, in the long run, electric units offer enough day-to-day advantages that, yes, they are a better deal. It's like when drivers complained about front vent windows disappearing in the 1970s......remember that? In the long run, cars were better off without them....flow-through ventilation was developed, most vehicles eventually came with standard or optional A/C, car styling looked cleaner, they were easier to produce on the assembly line, and there was less wind-noise, And, one-piece windows were more reliable.......except for the crank-operated ones, the hinges on those old wing-vents tended to loosen up wth time (and wind-pressure) and start flopping around on their own as they wore. People also smoked in those days, and the vent windows could blow dangerous orange-glowing cigarette heads off and around the inside of the car.

Johnhav430

That's a good term to use, neuter. Only as recently as 6 years ago, purists said that the E9x M3 had steering just a little more dead on center than a 328/335i, preferring the latter for steering. That difference is so minute but it was noted back then. When I test drove the Corvette recently I told myself yes there is nothing I can do about it, at least this car has a stick and V8 so I'll dwell upon that...

SW17LS

Of course it isn't, nor were hydraulic steering systems. I didn't find anything wrong with the Maxima's steering at all, I didn't find it overly light, I thought it suited what the car was just fine, which is a somewhat sporty family sedan.

However, I no longer own any cars with hydraulic steering, that may be why these EPS systems freak you out so much, your cars are old and all hydraulic. I haven't driven a car with hydraulic steering in several years.

I have driven the new Malibu, and I like everything about the Maxima MUCH more. Steering didnt make an impression on me in the Malibu, nor did it in the Maxima.

Johnhav430

I remember being chauffered by this diplomat's driver when I was a kid, and it was a Lincoln. I asked the driver to let me sit in the front, and I was obsessed with the window going down electricaly in the vent position first, then the regular window. I notice some Subarus have something resembling a vent window, and I think Honda, but do they open?

SW17LS

I was not alive lol

As for why companies are using EPS, its because of autonomous driving mainly, and also for cost savings, maintenance savings, etc.