Say what you want about Musk, but I love this...
06-29-18, 05:58 PM
#47
06-29-18, 06:03 PM
#48
06-29-18, 07:39 PM
#49
Lexus Champion
There certainly are similarities if you turn the hate filter off. The difference is Jobs didn't have ambitions beyond the tech industry, Musk wants to put people on Mars and come up with sustainable transport and energy.
06-29-18, 10:49 PM
#50
Racer
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I didn't make the comparison but it's 100% relevant and you couldn't be more wrong about Jobs. It's funny how people's memories work - we tend to glorify the past and also tend to attempt correlating recent history as if that's what has always happened (meaning you now feel Jobs is an icon and assume that's how it always was). I've read 3 or 4 books on Jobs and watched several documentaries on his ups and downs- it's incredible how often he was publicly ridiculed from every angle. Quick examples:
- Jobs was fired from Apple in 1985. He was criticized by the CEO (Sculley) and the entire Board of Directors who gave the go-ahead to have him terminated.
- Tech experts were crushing him for the 2nd generation Mac and saying it was a toy with no computing power (this was the final straw that had Sculley seek to remove him as head of Mac division- but the Board instead said to fire him completely)
- He had also overseen the Lisa and Apple 2 and Apple 3 - all of which were complete failures and he was criticized to no end for these
- He was crushed when he introduced the iPod into an already crowded MP3 player market at ridiculously high prices. It wasn't until years later that people looked back and realized he was creating an ecosystem via iTunes and the iPod was just a mechanism to help fuel it.
- Remember when the first iPhone came out? "No physical keyboard? What? How can anyone use a phone without physical buttons?" Again, years later it shows the shift of an entire segment and the death of Palm (Treo), virtual demise of BlackBerry, and so many others. And again, the phone was simply a component of a new world Jobs dreamed up to leverage apps which we now use all day, everyday.
- Not to mention his constant ridicule of being a manager/leader from all who reported into him and worked for him when he returned to Apple. Designers hated him, product managers hated him, almost everyone hated him.. including members of his own family.
06-30-18, 03:36 AM
#51
Pole Position
Someone compared Amazon and Tesla as far as profits. Amazon made a profit in their fifth year. Tesla has been in business for 15 years and has never made a profit. Their 15th year was their largest loss. The first quarter of 2018 was their largest loss in a quarter.
Tesla's stock is down -4.72% over the last 12 months while the S&P is up +16.64%. It bonds are now graded junk. In the last four years it has lost over 3 billion. In fifteen years they have never come close to making a profit. Their 15th year was their worst year with a loss of 2 billion. They lost 777 million in the first quarter of 2018. Consumer Reports ranks them 25th out of 29 in reliability. Hilarious that unreliable and they do not even have an engine and a single speed transmission. Consumer Reports gave the Model X, their over $100,000 SUV, the lowest score in reliability. They listed their ten dogs to avoid based on reliability and the Model X is #1. Tesla owners are like your neighbor who just had to be the first one on the block with a HDTV. The rest waited and bought a much better and more reliable one for a whole lot less. When federal tax credits disappear and car manufacturers not a tech company come out with more reliable and better looking EV, Tesla will be history.
Tesla's stock is down -4.72% over the last 12 months while the S&P is up +16.64%. It bonds are now graded junk. In the last four years it has lost over 3 billion. In fifteen years they have never come close to making a profit. Their 15th year was their worst year with a loss of 2 billion. They lost 777 million in the first quarter of 2018. Consumer Reports ranks them 25th out of 29 in reliability. Hilarious that unreliable and they do not even have an engine and a single speed transmission. Consumer Reports gave the Model X, their over $100,000 SUV, the lowest score in reliability. They listed their ten dogs to avoid based on reliability and the Model X is #1. Tesla owners are like your neighbor who just had to be the first one on the block with a HDTV. The rest waited and bought a much better and more reliable one for a whole lot less. When federal tax credits disappear and car manufacturers not a tech company come out with more reliable and better looking EV, Tesla will be history.
06-30-18, 05:29 AM
#52
Lexus Fanatic
Tesla's own policy simply makes them bite off more than they can chew. Musk insists on Tesla-ownership of all of the sales, service, and repair facilities, with no traditional private-franchises to pick up any of the costs. That not only vastly increases the company's overhead and debt, but, in the long run, has never worked for any mass-producer of vehicles. Tesla is probably not going to be any different.
06-30-18, 08:58 AM
#53
Lexus Test Driver
Time will only tell but all the great visionaries and inventors were never driven by profits.
Thats what I admire most about Musk, money means nothing to him - its all about creating something new.
Going back to Steve Jobs - his other company, NeXT, also failed after he was pushed out by Apple.
Now he is the greatest lol.
Musk has much more extreme goals but Tesla and SpaceX have already done more than 99% of his critics predicted.
Thats what I admire most about Musk, money means nothing to him - its all about creating something new.
Going back to Steve Jobs - his other company, NeXT, also failed after he was pushed out by Apple.
Now he is the greatest lol.
Musk has much more extreme goals but Tesla and SpaceX have already done more than 99% of his critics predicted.
Last edited by RNM GS3; 06-30-18 at 09:04 AM.
06-30-18, 04:43 PM
#54
I dont think a foreign company would be able to lie and deceive in investor meetings, and do things like talk about not-existing pickup truck on twitter day before asking $2.5k from every reservation holder, months and possibly year ahead of delivery.
06-30-18, 04:59 PM
#55
All right, so connection here is that Tesla will fail, and Musk will 10 years later create something else that will be sucessful?
Steve Jobs never deceived the public, Apple never sold vaporware. Reason they were so successful was that they would start selling the products days after introduction, they did not have 2 years worth of pre-orders so they can finance the production. They also made high quality product, Apple never had products
btw - I think Musk is one of the biggest visionaries of our time, i think Teslas are very desirable vehicles, and I dont think that Tesla will actually fail... but the way he goes around doing business is not the greatest - poor quality product, lies/deceit to the investors, false misrepresentations to the customers, accusations against every entity that paints Tesla in unfavorable light (customers, employees, government, media, etc).
Sure, I dont own any Tesla stock, so I might see it a bit different than some here, but oh well. Heck, I also do not use iphone for past 8 years either.
06-30-18, 05:47 PM
#56
Lexus Champion
Steve Jobs never deceived the public, Apple never sold vaporware. Reason they were so successful was that they would start selling the products days after introduction, they did not have 2 years worth of pre-orders so they can finance the production. They also made high quality product, Apple never had products
06-30-18, 06:06 PM
#57
Lexus Champion
This is true, many years AFTER Apple nearly went the way of the dodo. You make it sound like Apple has seen smooth sailing and happy times throughout their history. Being a first mover is not easy, in fact it is a pretty good recipe to fail. I am in agreement with you that Musk engages in questionable practices, like I've said before I think he needs to find someone to take care of the nuts and bolts part of the business.
I have been saying all along that it takes many different people with very specific talent to run the various functional groups (marketing and product development; design, engineering and making decisions of "make or buy"; manufacturing of various components that may be built in-house, including car bodies and traction batteries; and supplier management, as just a few) in an automaker. One person cannot do it all alone, especially one who does not have experience working in senior management of an automaker.
06-30-18, 06:18 PM
#58
Lexus Champion
The falcon wing doors are an example of great ideas that should not be put into mass production. Yes they are extremely cool, but they delayed the Model X even more than it already was. And they are troublesome and very expensive. But Musk wanted them because they make a statement. Musk has gone on record that you'll never see such a design in a Tesla ever again, or probably any production car. A manager with some sense would have said no to the design.
07-01-18, 12:39 PM
#59
Dude is simply a troll and is gaming the media. It works just look at politics. Controversy = winning.
This is free marketing for Musk. The more BS he speaks the more his cult loves him and the more his haters hate him. He wins at the end of the day.
This is free marketing for Musk. The more BS he speaks the more his cult loves him and the more his haters hate him. He wins at the end of the day.
07-01-18, 12:57 PM
#60
Lexus Fanatic