EZZ

Not to mention that for over $50k, you get a BMW or C class that runs to 60 in less than 5 seconds and handles significantly better. Dumb to compare them

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

It's absolutely true that Lexus claims the C-Class is the ES's competitor. I grilled them on this a few years ago when they brought a C-Class and CTS to compare against the then new 6th generation ES. Their sole reasoning is the entry level PRICE. Nothing to do with FWD vs RWD. To Lexus the IS / ES is a one-two punch of entry levels with different goals for Lexus.

jadu

iTrader: (42)

sleek lookin ES

ydooby

+1

All the German competitors have been able to maintain high body/chassis rigidity without ever sacrificing the option to have fold-down rear seats. Lexus needs to realize that, short of an outright sports car, every car they build needs to nail the practicality aspects first before sportiness comes into considerations, or they'll risk losing the majority of the market audience.

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

I don't understand. They managed to make the 3IS (first Lexus to have this feature) with 60/40 split rear seats. Why couldn't they do it for the 7ES??

BippuLexus

Agreed. I would guess if you paid roughly about 3 thousand dollars more (based on Redline Review's estimate F-Sport price), you'll be able to buy a fully loaded M Sport Pack BMW 330i that will handle and perform way better.

Oh snap. I didn't know they brought a C-Class and CTS to compare it to the 6ES. That makes no sense either that they did that. Lol. I just think its so funny and stupid.

Ahh! That's true. The entry-level base price is very comparable. I can see how the Lexus IS/ES are a one-two punch in the entry level segment. But if they cancel the IS because they think the ES is the main competitor to the C-Class/3 Series, they trippin' - legit tripping on bad kush.

Its so strange. The Lexus ES is marketed for its size, practically, and good luxury daily driver but doesn't have a folding rear seat. Yet - a Lexus IS, which is a compact RWD Luxury Sports Sedan, has rear folding seats??? Makes no sense. Lol.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

assume their research said it doesn't bring enough more sales for $ of engineering and manufacturing for fold rear seat.

Toys4RJill

Like I mentioned in other posts about Toyota or Lexus in general. Toyota and Lexus find ways to force into an RX is space and hauling is an absolute priority. Reason why Toyota and Lexus cars have no AWD, same in this situation. The IS is a bit different as it is not the same customer as the ES or RX type of individual.

peteharvey

I have always felt that ES overlaps & takes sales from both IS & GS.
In other words, to compare sales, we'd really have to add ES/IS/GS to compare with C/E Classes as an example.

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

Only a handful of Lexus models don't offer AWD. The sedans/hatches that are not performance based but efficiency based, and the coupes that are higher up the food chain. Otherwise all models off an option. Not sure I agree with you

UX - FWD / AWD
IS - RWD / AWD
RC - RWD / AWD
GS - RWD / AWD
LS - RWD / AWD
NX - FWD / AWD
RX - FWD / AWD
GX - 4WD
LX - 4WD

SC - RWD
LC - RWD
ES - FWD
HS - FWD
CT - FWD

peteharvey

Humans are fallible.
We make mistakes.
There will always be some discrepancies.
Best to rectify the discrepancy and move on, rather than insist there has been no discrepancy nor mistake at all.
.

Toys4RJill

Sorry, I should of explained a bit better. Toyota car models as well as the ES model do not offer AWD and forces one into an SUV if you want AWD. So this is my theory as well for the back seat fold down which makes no sense not to offer it. But you are right about most of the line offering AWD. Where Toyota also does weird stuff is with their 4Runner, they force the buyer into the high end trim if you want to have permanent AWD. This was unlike the previous gen 4Runner

pman6

my 2003 ES has the stupid V brace too, and whenever I need to haul something big.... like a TV, or a door, or more than a few sticks of lumber,
I need to remove the back seat and unscrew that V brace so that I get the same big opening the sister Camry gets.

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

The ES has always been an oddball, and part of the reason the GS was never able to match the 5 or E (not that it truly would crack that anyway). The ES being entry priced but midsize makes it very unique. I just have to look at Lexus sedans as a whole (as you mentioned). But the ES is important just like the RX, because it allows Lexus to continue to build the LS and LC, and unique projects like the LFA. The ES has always represented value on a luxury field. The best ES was the 4th generation in terms of a solid vehicle that was plush and comfortable, amazing fit and finish, top notch materials, smooth powertrain. Since the decision to can the 300B programme aka GS has been made this will allow Lexus to grow the IS a bit. I wonder if the IS will eventually leapfrog the ES in terms of positioning among Lexus sedans. Overall this new ES looks nice and still will offer a lot for the money, but it could be improved still in some areas.

I understand your point better. Thanks

peteharvey

Apparently, the new 7ES has aluminium hood & aluminium front quarter panels too.
It's turning into a GS.