All-new 2019 Lexus ES to debut at Beijing Motorshow
04-11-18, 07:33 PM
#91
Lexus Fanatic
I understand that, BUT it is not a transverse layout car, even though it is FWD base. Its also just under $50k and only with the 4cyl. That is a VERY rare car in the US.
04-11-18, 07:34 PM
#92
Lexus Champion
Plenty of people don't consider my LS a real luxury car because its made by Toyota. And perhaps to people who buy V12 sedans and Bentleys and Rolls Royces, it isn't. I agree, its not what those cars are, and the ES isn't what the cars we discussing are. Having had all of these models is what makes that statement so clear to me. The feel of the ES vs the GS or LS is night and day. The ES lacks the "premium feel" those cars have in spades. Will the new one be different? Perhaps, but it will always be a transverse FWD car and that is always going to hold it back from consumers who really want a truly premium vehicle and understand the difference.
But somewhere a smart sports oriented buyer needs to think about grabbing the last GS-Fs and their V8s, because the GS might not be long for this world if the rumors are true.
04-11-18, 07:36 PM
#93
Lexus Fanatic
There are of course the German transverse fwd derivatives like the BMW 1 series. Audi with its A3. MB has the CLA. Their main advantage is that they do performance variants with higher horsepower or dct transmissions. But do ES buyers cross shop those to the ES? I don't think so either. Quite possibly not the same buyers. If Lexus wanted to be bold with the ES, they could do awd and higher horsepower on the next TNGA platform.
In this respect, you are speaking from experience. There is no substitute for what a rwd based luxury vehicle feels like in sedan form vs a fwd vehicle. The 5LS is now intruding on the GS' space with price being the main differenciator.
But somewhere a smart sports oriented buyer needs to think about grabbing the last GS-Fs and their V8s, because the GS might not be long for this world if the rumors are true.
But somewhere a smart sports oriented buyer needs to think about grabbing the last GS-Fs and their V8s, because the GS might not be long for this world if the rumors are true.
To be fair though, the 5LS is 13 inches longer than a GS.
04-11-18, 07:49 PM
#94
Lexus Fanatic
I liken the FWD to RWD debate to quartz and automatic movements in watches. I have a very nice Raymond Weil quartz movement watch I paid about $1,000 for, I like it and it serves my needs, its classy and isn't just an ordinary watch you can buy at Kay jewelers like a Seiko or a Citizen or even a Movado. But, I'm not a "watch person". Watch enthusiasts who are really into watches will NEVER buy a watch that has a quartz movement instead of an automatic movement, the mention of a quartz movement watch is like heresy..
Last edited by Toys4RJill; 04-11-18 at 07:53 PM.
04-11-18, 07:52 PM
#95
Lexus Fanatic
There are of course the German transverse fwd derivatives like the BMW 1 series. Audi with its A3. MB has the CLA. Their main advantage is that they do performance variants with higher horsepower or dct transmissions. But do ES buyers cross shop those to the ES? I don't think so either. Quite possibly not the same buyers. If Lexus wanted to be bold with the ES, they could do awd and higher horsepower on the next TNGA platform.
In this respect, you are speaking from experience. There is no substitute for what a rwd based luxury vehicle feels like in sedan form vs a fwd vehicle. The 5LS is now intruding on the GS' space with price being the main differenciator.
But somewhere a smart sports oriented buyer needs to think about grabbing the last GS-Fs and their V8s, because the GS might not be long for this world if the rumors are true.
In this respect, you are speaking from experience. There is no substitute for what a rwd based luxury vehicle feels like in sedan form vs a fwd vehicle. The 5LS is now intruding on the GS' space with price being the main differenciator.
But somewhere a smart sports oriented buyer needs to think about grabbing the last GS-Fs and their V8s, because the GS might not be long for this world if the rumors are true.
04-11-18, 08:03 PM
#96
Lexus Champion
If they do something with a TNGA awd ES, that is going to be a good thing. The current ES has a nice interior and a decent side profile.
04-11-18, 08:06 PM
#97
Lexus Fanatic
I would bet heavily on AWD in top ES models. Maybe not in the Avalon, but for sure IMO in the ES. Maybe not in the first model year though. I also imagine an air suspension with AVS will be available for sure
Last edited by Toys4RJill; 04-11-18 at 08:39 PM.
04-11-18, 08:09 PM
#98
Lexus Fanatic
You come off as very arrogant and self centered. That is a shame because most of the stuff you write is interesting and informative. The clock in the center dash of your Lexus LS460 is a quartz clock, no different than the ES. A Bentley uses an authentic Breitling clock that is non quartz.
Nobody that knows me would ever describe me as arrogant or self centered. I am however a car enthusiast, and I don't like FWD cars, I don't think FWD cars are as desirable as RWD cars for many reasons. Like I said, I have no problem with the ES being FWD, I'm not going to buy one but I get it, I just don't want to see it replace the GS which is at current a very good RWD sport/luxury sedan that is under-appreciated.
Some things are better, and some people don't understand why they're better. Having that understanding is not "arrogance". Lots of things I don't understand or appreciate that others do. Wine, cheese, sound systems, home theatre systems, the list goes on and on.
Last edited by SW17LS; 04-11-18 at 08:14 PM.
04-11-18, 08:35 PM
#99
Lexus Fanatic
But it’s all good, carry on.....
Last edited by Toys4RJill; 04-11-18 at 08:51 PM.
04-11-18, 08:53 PM
#100
Lexus Fanatic
It’s just interesting that you used quartz to define FWD and automatic watches to define RWD. I hope you are aware that quartz watches are in fact more accurate than automatic mechanical watches. You also need no service for a quartz watch whereas you need service for mechanical watches. Mercedes used to only use mechanical clocks for their interiors at one time, somwhere in time they changed over to quartz clocks.
Go ask a watch enthusiast which is better. Also, what sort of watch is a $30,000 Rolex? Its an automatic watch. You won't find quartz watches over $1,500 in cost or so, everything above that is an automatic watch, automatic watch = quality in the watch world. People say "quartz is better because its more accurate" or "because you don't have to wind it all the time", but watch enthusiasts snicker at that just like car enthusiasts snicker at "FWD cars are better in the snow". In fact...they aren't better in the snow, and can actually be extremely dangerous. Same as the fact that a fine automatic timepiece is far more accurate than a quartz movement.
The analogy to the FWD vs RWD debate is actually pretty spot on. We are way off topic though.
04-11-18, 09:00 PM
#101
Lexus Fanatic
Last edited by Toys4RJill; 04-11-18 at 09:17 PM.
04-11-18, 09:03 PM
#102
Lexus Fanatic
04-11-18, 09:08 PM
#103
Lexus Champion
From a watch nut. Automatics/quartz etc.
If Lexus licences a Bulova Accutron II and puts it in an ES, now that would be interesting. Smooth ultra high frequency movement with the second hand sweep.
Analog clocks are a reference to the old world luxury of Jaguar, RR, Bentley etc. You can get an analog clock "look" with its ultra accurate smooth second hand sweep on an Ipad too.
But the LS 460's clock is a simple hour/minute. I don't see the value there. Not in our digital age. It's a nice to have but not need to have. The Germans had clocks right in the instrument panel as well with second hand sweep as did other car makers.
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/tag/car-clock/
If Lexus licences a Bulova Accutron II and puts it in an ES, now that would be interesting. Smooth ultra high frequency movement with the second hand sweep.
Analog clocks are a reference to the old world luxury of Jaguar, RR, Bentley etc. You can get an analog clock "look" with its ultra accurate smooth second hand sweep on an Ipad too.
But the LS 460's clock is a simple hour/minute. I don't see the value there. Not in our digital age. It's a nice to have but not need to have. The Germans had clocks right in the instrument panel as well with second hand sweep as did other car makers.
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/tag/car-clock/
04-11-18, 09:11 PM
#104
Lexus Fanatic
From a watch nut. Automatics/quartz etc.
If Lexus licences a Bulova Accutron II and puts it in an ES, now that would be interesting. Smooth ultra high frequency movement with the second hand sweep.
Analog clocks are a reference to the old world luxury of Jaguar, RR, Bentley etc. You can get an analog clock "look" with its ultra accurate smooth second hand sweep on an Ipad too.
But the LS 460's clock is a simple hour/minute. I don't see the value there. Not in our digital age. It's a nice to have but not need to have. The Germans had clocks right in the instrument panel as well with second hand sweep as did other car makers.
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/tag/car-clock/
If Lexus licences a Bulova Accutron II and puts it in an ES, now that would be interesting. Smooth ultra high frequency movement with the second hand sweep.
Analog clocks are a reference to the old world luxury of Jaguar, RR, Bentley etc. You can get an analog clock "look" with its ultra accurate smooth second hand sweep on an Ipad too.
But the LS 460's clock is a simple hour/minute. I don't see the value there. Not in our digital age. It's a nice to have but not need to have. The Germans had clocks right in the instrument panel as well with second hand sweep as did other car makers.
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/tag/car-clock/
Great find. But I think I shall be moving on from watches and clock talk. Back to the ES for me.
04-11-18, 09:39 PM
#105
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
can't believe how much this thread exploded in 12 hours and the big es reveal is still a couple of weeks away.
speaking of clocks, i was amazed that when i changed to daylight savings in the infotainment on my g90, the ANALOG clock hands smoothly rotated around 1 hour automatically.
speaking of clocks, i was amazed that when i changed to daylight savings in the infotainment on my g90, the ANALOG clock hands smoothly rotated around 1 hour automatically.
