Future of the Lexus GS around the world
04-11-18, 12:15 PM
#301
It isnt really the dealer's fault. When the ES has more usable interior room and trunk with more than $10k in savings, how will they convince the buyer to pay so much more for a little more power and AWD? But if they shove the V6TT in there, now there's a point of differentiation that the dealers can push. Right now 270hp vs 300hp doesnt make much of a difference and certainly not worth over $10k, even with AWD.
as of right now the 7th gen ES will at least mechanically mirror that of the new Camry V6 which is only 10 hp less and 13 lb-ft less than the 4GS 350. The wheelbase of the 7th ES platform twin the 2019 Avalon is 113 inches and the trunk is 17 cu ft.
So 6th gen ES has more passengers interior volume (103 cu ft) than the LS500 (0.99 cu ft) and 4GS (0.99 cu ft.) specs sourced from the EPA website.
The GS has to grow larger to stay competitive, it will be Interesting to see if Lexus launches a longer wheelbase L version of the LS in the coming months.
04-11-18, 12:24 PM
#302
Lexus Test Driver
as of right now the 7th gen ES will at least mechanically mirror that of the new Camry V6 which is only 10 hp less and 13 lb-ft less than the 4GS 350. The wheelbase of the 7th ES platform twin the 2019 Avalon is 113 inches and the trunk is 17 cu ft.
So 6th gen ES has more passengers interior volume (103 cu ft) than the LS500 (0.99 cu ft) and 4GS (0.99 cu ft.) specs sourced from the EPA website.
The GS has to grow larger to stay competitive, it will be Interesting to see if Lexus launches a longer wheelbase L version of the LS in the coming months.
Due to the teaser - there is already proof there will be a Lexus ES hybrid because of the blue L logo.
04-13-18, 06:03 AM
#303
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
back to the GS (not ES)? 
the GS is just kinda not this and not that... with the ES sitting in the same show room it's hard for the GS to justify it's what, $10k extra? it does handle better, feels more sporty inside, has better inside trim materials, but that face...
just re-read this review and it's very well stated i think:
http://www.motortrend.com/cars/lexus...t-test-review/
this point was a bit surprising...
so i'm still not sure really what lexus needs to do. i think a new one needs to be drop dead gorgeous (it isn't today) and not just polarizing, it needs to have a split personality (comfy cruiser or nice sounding responsive corner carver) via button/mode (it's mostly got that), and GREAT tech and implementation (it doesn't today), an updated powertrain, and better wheel fitment.
the GS is just kinda not this and not that... with the ES sitting in the same show room it's hard for the GS to justify it's what, $10k extra? it does handle better, feels more sporty inside, has better inside trim materials, but that face...
just re-read this review and it's very well stated i think:
http://www.motortrend.com/cars/lexus...t-test-review/
this point was a bit surprising...
What you won’t get with the GS 350 F Sport model is a quiet and cushy highway cruiser—the 5 Series might be a better bet if that’s your top priority.
04-13-18, 07:26 AM
#304
Pole Position
as of right now the 7th gen ES will at least mechanically mirror that of the new Camry V6 which is only 10 hp less and 13 lb-ft less than the 4GS 350. The wheelbase of the 7th ES platform twin the 2019 Avalon is 113 inches and the trunk is 17 cu ft.
So 6th gen ES has more passengers interior volume (103 cu ft) than the LS500 (0.99 cu ft) and 4GS (0.99 cu ft.) specs sourced from the EPA website.
The GS has to grow larger to stay competitive, it will be Interesting to see if Lexus launches a longer wheelbase L version of the LS in the coming months.
04-13-18, 07:46 AM
#305
The problem is, the GS can't grow. It will start encroaching on LS territory. Its just poor product planning as if they develop cars in isolation. There's absolutely no reason why the ES should be bigger than the more expensive models, especially the flagship large sedan.
I agree, their product planning executives need to be demoted to a different position. One of their least expensive sedans has the biggest passenger volume. This is truly a oximoron.
04-13-18, 10:02 AM
#306
Lexus Test Driver
The problem is, the GS can't grow. It will start encroaching on LS territory. Its just poor product planning as if they develop cars in isolation. There's absolutely no reason why the ES should be bigger than the more expensive models, especially the flagship large sedan.
Something like: GS and LS same size with the GS being a baby LS with detuned TTV6, less luxurious stuff and etc... Then if you want more space opt for the LS500L. <--- This could happen.
04-13-18, 11:03 AM
#307
Lexus Test Driver
It might be poor planning or they thought this through and planning to make a LS500L as a more "luxurious" and bigger LS.
Something like: GS and LS same size with the GS being a baby LS with detuned TTV6, less luxurious stuff and etc... Then if you want more space opt for the LS500L. <--- This could happen.
Something like: GS and LS same size with the GS being a baby LS with detuned TTV6, less luxurious stuff and etc... Then if you want more space opt for the LS500L. <--- This could happen.
If they come out with LWB then it will cost more than Sclass and 7series.
The LS500 with V6tt should start at $72 and max out at $95k.
They really overpriced compared to G90 and new v6 S450.
04-13-18, 11:12 AM
#308
The LWB model will probably only end up being $5-6k more the short wheelbase model and come with standard air suspension. I don’t think the LS500 will cost more than a S450. a very lightly optioned S450 runs in the low $100k range. If you check more than 6 boxes your touching $117-$121k.
04-13-18, 11:12 AM
#309
Lexus Fanatic
It might be poor planning or they thought this through and planning to make a LS500L as a more "luxurious" and bigger LS.
Something like: GS and LS same size with the GS being a baby LS with detuned TTV6, less luxurious stuff and etc... Then if you want more space opt for the LS500L. <--- This could happen.
Something like: GS and LS same size with the GS being a baby LS with detuned TTV6, less luxurious stuff and etc... Then if you want more space opt for the LS500L. <--- This could happen.
04-13-18, 11:49 AM
#310
Lexus Test Driver
The LWB model will probably only end up being $5-6k more the short wheelbase model and come with standard air suspension. I don’t think the LS500 will cost more than a S450. a very lightly optioned S450 runs in the low $100k range. If you check more than 6 boxes your touching $117-$121k.
Depending on how much options you get on the S-Class (S450) - it can easily shoot towards 120K. While the Lexus LS500L with all the options available tops out at closer to 110K. If you think about it, the S460 is extremely expensive. A closer to 120K price tag with majority of the options on it for the entry-level S-Class.
The LS500 and LS500L will always be cheaper than the lowest trim S-Class and lowest 7 Series. Lexus will make sure of it.
If you really think about it, the Lexus LS is a bargain compared to the S-Class and 7 Series. I think the Lexus LS will out-sell the 7 Series but not the S-class still though. S-Class has too much brand prestige. Lastly - the G90 isn't no where near as good as the new Lexus LS. I wouldn't even put them in the same league, to be honest.
V12 is never gonna make its way to the LS. Lexus is already thinking about removing V8s. Hell - MB is planning to not offer V12s anymore.
04-13-18, 01:31 PM
#311
Lexus Fanatic
The problem is, the GS can't grow. It will start encroaching on LS territory. Its just poor product planning as if they develop cars in isolation. There's absolutely no reason why the ES should be bigger than the more expensive models, especially the flagship large sedan.
04-13-18, 01:32 PM
#312
Lexus Fanatic
Highrev6 is right. A LWB model will probably only end up being $5-6K more than the standard wheel base model. As it currently stands the S-Class starts at 89K and while the LS500 Non F-Sport starts 75K and the F-Sport starts at 81K. This will probably make the LS500L start at 86K roughly.
Depending on how much options you get on the S-Class (S450) - it can easily shoot towards 120K. While the Lexus LS500L with all the options available tops out at closer to 110K. If you think about it, the S460 is extremely expensive. A closer to 120K price tag with majority of the options on it for the entry-level S-Class.
The LS500 and LS500L will always be cheaper than the lowest trim S-Class and lowest 7 Series. Lexus will make sure of it.
If you really think about it, the Lexus LS is a bargain compared to the S-Class and 7 Series. I think the Lexus LS will out-sell the 7 Series but not the S-class still though. S-Class has too much brand prestige. Lastly - the G90 isn't no where near as good as the new Lexus LS. I wouldn't even put them in the same league, to be honest.
V12 is never gonna make its way to the LS. Lexus is already thinking about removing V8s. Hell - MB is planning to not offer V12s anymore.
Depending on how much options you get on the S-Class (S450) - it can easily shoot towards 120K. While the Lexus LS500L with all the options available tops out at closer to 110K. If you think about it, the S460 is extremely expensive. A closer to 120K price tag with majority of the options on it for the entry-level S-Class.
The LS500 and LS500L will always be cheaper than the lowest trim S-Class and lowest 7 Series. Lexus will make sure of it.
If you really think about it, the Lexus LS is a bargain compared to the S-Class and 7 Series. I think the Lexus LS will out-sell the 7 Series but not the S-class still though. S-Class has too much brand prestige. Lastly - the G90 isn't no where near as good as the new Lexus LS. I wouldn't even put them in the same league, to be honest.
V12 is never gonna make its way to the LS. Lexus is already thinking about removing V8s. Hell - MB is planning to not offer V12s anymore.
04-13-18, 01:33 PM
#313
Lexus Test Driver
Highrev6 is right. A LWB model will probably only end up being $5-6K more than the standard wheel base model. As it currently stands the S-Class starts at 89K and while the LS500 Non F-Sport starts 75K and the F-Sport starts at 81K. This will probably make the LS500L start at 86K roughly.
Depending on how much options you get on the S-Class (S450) - it can easily shoot towards 120K. While the Lexus LS500L with all the options available tops out at closer to 110K. If you think about it, the S460 is extremely expensive. A closer to 120K price tag with majority of the options on it for the entry-level S-Class.
The LS500 and LS500L will always be cheaper than the lowest trim S-Class and lowest 7 Series. Lexus will make sure of it.
If you really think about it, the Lexus LS is a bargain compared to the S-Class and 7 Series. I think the Lexus LS will out-sell the 7 Series but not the S-class still though. S-Class has too much brand prestige. Lastly - the G90 isn't no where near as good as the new Lexus LS. I wouldn't even put them in the same league, to be honest.
Depending on how much options you get on the S-Class (S450) - it can easily shoot towards 120K. While the Lexus LS500L with all the options available tops out at closer to 110K. If you think about it, the S460 is extremely expensive. A closer to 120K price tag with majority of the options on it for the entry-level S-Class.
The LS500 and LS500L will always be cheaper than the lowest trim S-Class and lowest 7 Series. Lexus will make sure of it.
If you really think about it, the Lexus LS is a bargain compared to the S-Class and 7 Series. I think the Lexus LS will out-sell the 7 Series but not the S-class still though. S-Class has too much brand prestige. Lastly - the G90 isn't no where near as good as the new Lexus LS. I wouldn't even put them in the same league, to be honest.
Its still crazy for me to understand that after 11 years of planning and development, this is what they came up with as their "flagship"
G90 is what old LS was at an even cheaper price. It doesn't have the Lexus name or some of the quality/refinement but when your saving over $30k that can be overlooked. Thats what Lexus did back in 1989.
To get back to the GS - Lexus corporate hopefully will keep it but im not sure what they can turn it into.
Hopefully its a CLS / BMW GranCoupe / A7 / Kia Stinger type of "fashion" car.
04-13-18, 02:35 PM
#314
Lexus Test Driver
LS is cheaper but its not the bargain it once was especially since now it has no V8 and very limited rear seat space.
Its still crazy for me to understand that after 11 years of planning and development, this is what they came up with as their "flagship"
G90 is what old LS was at an even cheaper price. It doesn't have the Lexus name or some of the quality/refinement but when your saving over $30k that can be overlooked. Thats what Lexus did back in 1989.
To get back to the GS - Lexus corporate hopefully will keep it but im not sure what they can turn it into.
Hopefully its a CLS / BMW GranCoupe / A7 / Kia Stinger type of "fashion" car.
What do you mean "this is what they came up with?" - have you sat or drove a stacked Lexus LS500 with the Executive Package with Kirko glass? If you have, you'll likely have a change of mind. I sat in one of those for a good 20 minutes and didn't even want to leave it. It destroys the BMW 7 Series in every way possible in quality and refinement.
Those 30K isn't just the brand and "some" quality and refinement. You left out a bunch of stuff the Lexus LS has that the G90 doesn't. I have sat in both G90 and the new LS500. The LS500 is on a different league of quality, refinement and features. It can command 40K over the G90 if it wanted to.
But you are right - lets bring this back to the GS.
I disagree - they won't make a CLS, BMW GrandCoupe, or A7. Lexus won't make a 4-door coupe. They just don't sell good. The CLS, 6 Series GrandCoupe and A7 all average sales well below the 700s. Even the current gen GS, that people are complaining about, sells better than those cars.
Last edited by BippuLexus; 04-13-18 at 02:39 PM.
04-13-18, 03:20 PM
#315
Lexus Test Driver
Well if you think a TT V6 is better than a TT V8 and you feel that Lexus has really done all it could after having the previous generation hang around for 11 years - you are definitely a die hard Lexus fan.
On the GS point - they need to further differentiate it from the ES therefore making it a really sporty 4door coupe with LC styling would not be so bad.
On the GS point - they need to further differentiate it from the ES therefore making it a really sporty 4door coupe with LC styling would not be so bad.