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My prior sporty cars were AP1 S2000 and e92 M3 with DCT,I miss both cars, but feel like the S2000 was the better car (considering the cost difference) the M3 was not twice as nice as the S2000 however the M3 was nicer inside and more prestigious much like the Cayman is nicer and more prestigious than the BRZ.
I found the S2000 too small (I'm 6'2") sure was able to fit in the car but not well. Both the Cayman and BRZ are more comfortable and roomy than the S2000 was.
I found the M3 was great in almost every way except the size/weight and while I did love the DCT, I found that I just left it on drive and was more or less just a fast car not as fun as the S2000 (combination of smaller weight and the 6MT).
I didn't like the S2000 as much when it got to 9/10th limit because it was quite a tricky car when it got to the edge, both the BRZ and Cayman have stability control more safety net as well as more airbags and more safety (roof).
Now I'm trying to get a sports car that splits the difference between the S2000 and the M3 (Cayman) or that is just a more friendly substitute for the S2000 (BRZ).
I drove them both. However these are test drives maybe 7-8 miles each drive (BRZ used, BRZ new and Cayman new). I can not be sure if the BRZ is just rite or if I'll regret the lower power.
Full disclosure, I don't need/want a fast car. I can't drive extra fast because of safety as well as law enforcement and I don't go to the track.
The Cayman which I drove was new with the turbo 4 and the PDK, but I believe will look at the prior generation Cayman with 2.7L H6 with 275HP and 213TQ. The Cayman is slightly larger than the BRZ around 6 inches longer and 100 lbs heavier.
I have not decided yet but there is a 2014 Cayman with 6MT that I plan to look at. It's kind of middle optioned which was mainly the convenience package and seats/leather but no major performance options. I think it's set up more as a light sporty. Here is a $40K Cayman https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/invent...ting=199744682
When I drove both the 2017 Cayman and the BRZ it was night and day with the BRZ interior like a $20K car and the Cayman obviously much more solid, solid thunk of the doors, nice materials inside. I am not overly concerned with the BRZ feeling cheap. I think cheap cars have a mission and mainly they are cheaper to buy, but from my reading the BRZ has put the money in the right places such as performance, driving feel not in the materials, I don't really care if the BRZ has some hard plastics. That's not what I'm buying for. I am mostly buying for fun and sporty car. I don't care if the Cayman can do 0-100 1-2 seconds faster. I am not really interested in fast car. I drove a 911 turbo a while back, I drove a M3 414 HP which would leave these two cars for dead form a stop. But what I found that fast cars are fun when you drive them fast. While a 3000 pound car can be fun with less speed.
BRZ limited with PP(performance package) before taxes is around $28K
Pros
-cheaper
-new
-has some better features like keyless go (which I really like)
-less costly to repair (I assume)
-less likely to need repair (I assume)
-back seat (small but it's something). I hardly used the back seat of the M3 but they were much larger than the BRZ space but overall the back seat area is a slight plus for the BRZ
Cons
-less power (not that I care a lot but it's not like either one is fast, but the BRZ probably feels much slower this is just a guess on my part)
-less prestigious (not that I care, but just that the Porsche is an arrival car and the BRZ is not really)
-May be more noise in the cabin (not sure)
Cayman
pros/cons pretty much the exact same in reverse (more money, more power, nicer interior etc.)
Definitely a tough spot. You've nailed it. The BRZ is everything you really "need" but does lack a bit of punch for the times when you actually have space to run it, but as you note, it still has a lot of nice features for the money. It'll be fairly no hassles, and manageable maintenance costs. Again, just very basic, but fun.
Above that price point, and being open to used opens like pandora's box of vehicle decisions especially for people who aren't locked into one brand as you seem to be. It's such a slippery slope of reaching slightly higher and higher. Especially once you've gotten a taste for vehicles that are slightly higher up the totem pole.
I can't really help you as I talk myself in and out of random cars I find listed online each and every day hahaha. Curious to see what you end up with!
I agree with much of what pbm317 said, but, even so, I'd go with the BRZ, especially if you are going to keep it more than 4-5 years. In addition to the "pros" you've already given it, it will be far less expensive to repair and service when the warranty is gone. And the Germans only give you a 4/50 warranty, period....Subaru gives you 5/60 on the drivetrain (where the most expensive repairs are likely to be) and 3/36 on the rest of the car.
And, BTW, if you like the BR-Z, you might want to consider the Toyota FT-86 version of it...same car, different badge. Toyota gives you the same warranty as Subaru, but a more extensive choice of dealerships.
or buy something like this and save $10K and mod it....
yes, I did drive one 2015 BRZ had a few more miles but basically the same idea as this one was $18k
I *prefer* a new car, no reason except you know the history and can keep it nice. I’m not opposed to buying a used car but generally buy new. Can get the color I like and options.
I think I’ll go test drive the Cayman this Sunday, but because this is just a toy car, really may just go the cheaper/new car.
One thing which I dislike is taking cars in for fix and repair, just inconvenient and costly.
Of course can never know for sure sometimes a new car will be more trouble than a used one but it’s often just luck either way, but I’m a big believer in Japanese reliability (more or less), I’ve owned Isuzu, Honda’s (4) Acura’s (3), Nissan, Toyota and several Subaru’s basically they’ve all been great with exception of power doors on one of the Odyssey but never left me stranded.
I agree with much of what pbm317 said, but, even so, I'd go with the BRZ, especially if you are going to keep it more than 4-5 years. In addition to the "pros" you've already given it, it will be far less expensive to repair and service when the warranty is gone. And the Germans only give you a 4/50 warranty, period....Subaru gives you 5/60 on the drivetrain (where the most expensive repairs are likely to be) and 3/36 on the rest of the car.
And, BTW, if you like the BR-Z, you might want to consider the Toyota FT-86 version of it...same car, different badge. Toyota gives you the same warranty as Subaru, but a more extensive choice of dealerships.
thanks Marshall, look at Toyota 86 but the BRZ has a few things which I prefer like keyless start, Apple CarPlay and somewhat better standard or package options, but I’m going to look at the 86 also just to make sure, but either one is not thick on the ground, I think the dealers just wait for someone to ask for one or just stock one car (sometimes not even one).
I believe both Toyota and Subaru can care less about the twins, can’t tell you how many times I’ve been asked if I’d prefer a WRX instead of BRZ.
does remind me of the S2000 where the first few years was hot and then kind of lost interest from many people, I’m sure people not in my situation will just look at a GTi or Civic Si or WRX as they have many virtues but the BRZ/86 have lots of comprises but also more character.
OP - if you were complaining doing throttle actuators on your M3 as a sign of "poor" reliability, I would not even touch a Porsche. Its a mid-engine car and is much harder to work on and will cost you way more in regular maintenance than your M3 ever did.
OP - if you were complaining doing throttle actuators on your M3 as a sign of "poor" reliability, I would not even touch a Porsche. Its a mid-engine car and is much harder to work on and will cost you way more in regular maintenance than your M3 ever did.
Stick with the BRZ......
I suppose you’re correct on that point. I was spoiled by the S2000 which was so reliable it was sick, I only one check engine light (malfunction gas cap) in 6 years. Gas, tires and oil was all it wanted.
Personally I'd go for a used flat six Porsche Cayman, stick of course. Its just that much more car IMO than the Subaru/Toyota twins.
I've never been a fan of the GT-86/FR-S/BRZ, the styling was IMO kind of boring and derivative, they aren't fast(which is okay, but they should offer a higher hp model), the interior is kind of base level Yaris/Chevy Cruize type of crap IMO, they are hard to see out of, but my main beef is with the flat four engine. It doesn't sound all that great, it isn't powerful, it has a very weird powerband that isn't linear where the midrange rpm's actually drop off, then it picks up again past 4500rpm, it isn't all that smooth or refined. Granted the Miata doesn't have a lot of power, but the engine is a sweethart, no matter the year, very linear powerband, likes to rev, smooth, sounds great. Plus a new Miata can blow the doors off a BRZ in a straight line.
As for the Porsche, it has a great chassis, perhaps one of the best handling cars you can buy. The flat six engine sounds amazing, makes good power(great power if you opt for the S version), great gearbox, it is a real deal driver's car and IMO several magnitudes better than the BRZ both in the engine department and the refinement department. As for reliability, Porsche has proven to be the most reliable German made car, and buying one used, Porsche owners tend to be fanatics in the way they maintain their cars. Its easy to find a low mile, garage queen Cayman, even one that is 10+ years old in just mint condition with less than 30k miles on it.
Personally if its not an every-day car, buy the Porsche. The BRZ feels like a RWD Corolla with great handling, IE a pretty boring car built to a price with a sorted chassis and commuter car engine. The Porsche is just on a whole different level, since it was built to a much higher price point and marketed to a totally different customer.
BTW if you are dead set on a new car, go drive a new Miata, maybe the folding hardtop one if you don't like convertibles. Its A WAY better car than the BRZ IMO.
^
You could not be any more wrong about BRZ and clearly you probably never drove it.
If you put same tires on BRZ as the new Miata has, it will drive cirlces around it - not to mention the performance it will give you with a set of Michelin Pilot SuperSports like Cayman has.
The interior of BRZ is nice imo. It has GREAT seats and steering wheel, amazing driving position and very clear distinct gauges. None of these parts are shared with other cars. Sure plastics are cheap on dash and you will get some rattles but the important stuff is done right.
The interior of BRZ is nice imo. It has GREAT seats and steering wheel, amazing driving position and very clear distinct gauges. None of these parts are shared with other cars. Sure plastics are cheap on dash and you will get some rattles but the important stuff is done right.
agreed, altho I've never driven the BRZ, I sat in a few and thought the interior was nice....I actually like it better than the RC interior (sorry Lexus)
One thing that I don’t like regarding the BRZ but same thing with Cayman the speedo goes up to 160 but the first 60 mph takes up like 2 inches.
Does have a digital Speedo also but the actual gauge is useless.
Sports cars, in general, have the tach in the middle like that, often larger than the actual speedometer itself. that, of course, is because these cars usually have manual transmissions, and it helps help keep the driver's eyes on them and not accidentally red-line the engine.
03-13-18, 07:40 PM
Base Cayman vs BRZ
Especially once you've gotten a taste for vehicles that are slightly higher up the totem pole. 
