bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

Johnhav430

It would be interesting to try one. I know when my coworker had a A6 2.0T, she was told by the svc. mgr that motor is too small for the vehicle, if you want to know the truth. I do know that the BMW loaner, a N20 that I spent 4.5 mos., with was extremely rough, and that was a turbo 4 in a 328 sedan. It wasn't slow in launch mode, but it was a racket.

4TehNguyen

iTrader: (1)

why were camry sales up 21% in Jan 2018 if the crossovers are killing sedans? Camry is definitely a more exciting car. I think the accord looks fine, but hte engine choices suck. They aren't any better than the NA offerings in the camry in performance or mpg.

why by a higher end trim accord with a 2.0T 252 hp when you can get a camry V6 with 301hp? Mileage isnt even that much different between both engines

Johnhav430

It would be important for us to know at what rpm the camry achieves 301 HP. More importantly, I'd compare the torque bands of the two motors. If these were my two choices, I'd probably go with the Honda. It reminds me of the last election, some people abstained.

situman

Looks are important if you want to get a customer into buying a sedan. And I'm very sure this class of buyers will likely do much more research than the luxury car buyers.

Turbo will require more strict and expensive maintenance in the long run. Most people that buys this class of cars wants absolute reliability and dependability with low maintenance costs in the short and long term. The people that can afford to move up to the V6 wants the same level of low maintenance and reliability.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

probably many factors... maybe they were blowing out the '17s in Jan, maybe there were better incentives than usual. maybe there were other factors a year ago (which the 21% is comparing against) - like trump had just become president and there was uncertainty

good points but i wouldn't consider either as remotely 'exciting'. they're both stylish (more than before) comfortable reliable sedans, but i think the accord's looks are hurting it, maybe the price... heck, maybe honda can't supply enough right now for whatever reasons and so dealers keep prices higher, who knows.

i completely disagree with ridiculous pronouncements that 'sedans are dead' but clearly demand for them has cooled in recent years, but it may turn out that toyota gains marketshare and others lose. i wouldn't want to be a salesperson trying to sell a mazda 6, kia optima, ford fusion, etc. for example. probably can't give 'em away.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

depends what you mean by 'long term'. and many manufacturers have gone big time on turbos in recent years and i've not seen some big announcement of reliability disasters.

mmarshall

If one uses synthetic oil of the proper grade and SAE-rating, changes it at suitable intervals, takes it easy on the engine when starting it and shutting it down, and doesn't overwork the turbo by creating excessive RPM or heat (the turbo's wastegate, if equipped, will prevent some of that), then the turbo should have a reasonably long life. Kia, for example, has a 10/100 warranty on their turbos.

Johnhav430

My in-law's 99 Passat had the unibody rust out (not VWs fault, accident) causing the vehicle to be junked. The turbo was still fine at 160k. It starts to get theoretical, well, so what if it was fine at 160k, it would have never gone 300k like any Toyota could....

oldcajun

One of the main problems with the Accord was the poor planning for the launch. For the first 3 months there were no 2 liter versions available. This meant that the only powertrain available was not only the 1.5 liter engine, but the CVT transmission. Now that there are 2 liter engine cars with the 10 speed auto available, sales might slowly improve.

UDel

Did you live with it like driving it for weeks or months? A 4 cylinder with a lot of torque down low can give a nice impression on a test drive but after living with it for a while the 4 cylinder compromises really start to show. Most people are leasing these cars for just a couple years so they don't really care, they did not buy the car and just going for the cheapest lease deal they can afford.

I think dropping the six cylinder is playing a part because there were a core of buyers who really liked it, most people generally don't want to pay a lot of money for a engine upgrade in the family sedan segment when the engine is still just another 4 cylinder, normally if they are paying a couple thousand for a upgraded engine from a 4 cylinder they want a 6 cylinder, not another 4 cylinder. Dropping the coupe is likely affecting sales too, the coupe and 6 cylinder may not have been huge sellers but combined there will be noticeable drop in sales. Styling and price/lack of deals though are likely the biggest factors or maybe people just like the last generation so much they want to hold on to it longer and don't see the new Accord as a worthy upgrade.

RNM GS3

peteharvey

Yes, a Benz 2.0T has very good flattish torque curve, is powerful, yet is six cylinder-like in smoothness.

Absolutely true. Accord's troubles are in styling, plus the market's shift in demand to utility vehicles.

In the last quarter of 2017, compact sales dropped to 486,244, while compact utility vehicles rose to a whopping 806,341.
Similarly, midsize sales dropped to 453,359, while midsize utility vehicles rose to 542,547.
The large car segment was only 100,989, while large utility vehicles was a good 342,525.

Small pickup trucks was only 116,828.
Though large pickup trucks were 642,674.

Premium compacts like Audi A3 etc, were only 19,351. Premium compact utility like X1 were 31,966.
Premium midsize like 3 Series were 116,607. Premium midsize utility like NX were 130,842.
Premium large like E Class were 79,062. Premium large utility like RX were a whopping 151,720.
Premium limmo like S Class were only 16,363. While premium full size utility were 34,507.

Thus, utility vehicles selling magnificently over traditional sedans/hatchs/wagons.
While the compact utility segment containing the RAV4 and CRV is presently the most popular segment, with second place being the large pickup trucks, while third place goes to midsize utility vehicles like Highlander etc.
Traditional compact and midsize vehicles segment including new Accord take fourth and fifth place respectively.

I myself don't like utility tall wagons, because I prefer the ride comfort, quietness, handling, performance & fuel efficiency of a sedan, however I guess the mass public, despite land size becoming smaller, homes are becoming larger and larger in square feet, indicating newfound efficiency, and in the same way, utility vehicles like RAV4 and Highlander have copious interior volume, despite a modest foot print compared to the GM and Ford large sedans of the 1970's...
.

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

So long as Honda's CR-V, HR-V, and Pilot sales are up (or they're working on more CUVs) then that should help offset the lesser Accord Sales. Honda was able to do an emergency refresh on the 2012/2013 Civic, no reason they couldn't reshape the fascia if that's all this boils down to.

situman

10-15yrs perhaps? Just saying the chances are higher that something goes wrong or a turbo needs replacing, not absolute.